IM modern orthodox - AMA.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 12:33 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

I wasn’t saying uniform in terms of levush - I’m saying uniformity within the mindset. Everyone does what works for them “within the confines of Halacha” but they don’t even learn what the Halacha is. I’ve heard every excuse in the book why mo “makes sense” but when you actually think about it, it doesn’t. There’s no United opinion on anything - it’s a free for all. You don’t wanna cover your hair? Ok don’t. Oh but you’re also mo and wanna show a “tefach” yeah that works too. How in the world does that make sense?

This goes back to what I said before. Lots of people associate themselves with modern orthodoxy and we don’t make it a habit of kicking people out, so you end up with all of that stuff even though it’s not reflective of a modern orthodox hashkafa.

I’ve also personally been taught hilchot Shabbat in my my modern orthodox high school and taught halacha in my teaching days at a modern orthodox school, so what you’re saying isn’t true across the board.

Also, many people I went to school with growing up were not modern orthodox but cared very much about Judaism and sending to a traditional school. They didn’t follow lots of Halacha, but we weren’t trying to get rid of them.

amother

Begonia

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 12:34 am

amother Ecru wrote:

This is literally was I going to write. Reading through this thread, it's confusing because when OP mentions examples - internet, ball games, out in the world, college etc - I'm like hey we're in that world. But we're not 'labeled' MO at all, we live in a classic Jackson neighborhood and fit right in.
So Amother black - you said it well, Torah is #1

I don’t believe that Torah is more #1 in Jackson than in Teaneck. I think that’s insulting.

amother

Plum

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 12:37 am

amother Maize wrote:

I’ll probably regret saying anything but here goes.

Seeing some of these comments bashing MO are extremely hurtful.

I grew up Chassidish. I’m currently MO. The reason I became MO is because I find that MO communities focus very strongly on their bein adam l’chaveiro mitzvos and connections.
In my very Chassidish school they taught about bein Adam l’chaveiro but when it came to practice, everyone suddenly pretends that it doesn’t apply to them. The way people in my Chassidish community view MO in regards to tznius are how I currently view Chassidim in regards to how they treat a fellow jew. (Disclaimer, not everyone is this way but in my experience, it’s been the vast majority)

As far as I know, the beis hamikdash was destroyed because of how we treated each other and NOT because of how women were dressed.

I’ve become a better yid since joining the MO community. I’ve learned other ways to feel close to Hashem. I’ve developed a natural love of following mitzvos where I previously felt it was something being shoved down my throat. I’m extremely grateful to the MO communities and am honored to be a part of them.

No community is 100% perfect in Yiddishkeit. Until Mashiach comes, we won’t know for sure which sect is closest to what Hashem really wants. We all have to try to be the best jew we can be and stop policing other people’s ways of serving Hashem

Interesting. I also grew up chassidish and had a pretty different experience. Bein Adam l’chaveiro was very important. Aren’t chassidim behind most chessed organizations? Yes Tznius is a big thing here but how is it fair to say that bein Adam l’chaveiro doesn’t exist here?
The system is not for everyone, I get that. But why is it okay to make such a false statement publicly? Our system has flaws. Many flaws. Bein adam l’chaveiro is not one of them.
The love you see here for a fellow Jew is indescribable.
I understand it wasn’t for you. And I know our system has flaws. But that doesn’t make it ok for you to say something like that about an entire community which is completely not true

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 12:38 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

1. If you're MO, must you also be a Zionist? Or are you allowed to believe that the State was a mistake to create and was against the will of Hashem?

2. Can a MO Jew believe that women and men should each exclusively stick to their traditional gender roles?

3. Can a MO Jew decide to stay in Kollel long term without facing hostility?

1. You’d not be taken too kindly for expressing that. Very taboo. Maybe more room to disagree and introduce some left-leaning politics about a two state solution, but certainly not that the enterprise was a mistake.

2. Yes. Lots of mo women are homemakers and the men go out and work.

3. Depends on if the family has another source of sufficient income or if they’re taking tzedakah or breaks for that choice.

amother

Vermilion

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 12:42 am

amother Tiffanyblue wrote:

Two questions,

Why are MO schools so outrageously expensive?

Why do MO communities accept transgenderism?

To address your first question, it’s because they are paying for teachers to have decent salaries to be able to live in the community and lots of learning resources (resource room, kriyah specialists, math and language supplemental instruction, etc.).

Your second question needs some work before it is addressable.

amother

Amber

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 1:04 am

I'm chassidish and want to share some things I respect about MO community.
1. Much less emphasis on clothing, labels, trends, etc. The MO women I know simply don't put as much thought into their wardrobe. They aren't shlumpy or anything, but it's like clothes are clothes and that's that. (Maybe in super rich MO communities this is different, but just sharing what I've seen.)
2. I also love that there is so much more room for individuality and it's not like e/o must value the same things and look the same.

Here's my question. I wonder how, in raising kids, you manage to balance engaging in the modern world and maintaining a lifestyle that isn't overly influenced by modern culture. Like allowing teens to follow/engage in sports, watch movies... and yet avoid having them become obsessed with cultural figures (sports players, singers, others) or pick up questionable values.

amother

Hibiscus

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 1:12 am

amother Vermilion wrote:

Easy—not everything is acceptable. We just welcome in a whole lot of people without forcing them to either conform or leave.

So back to my original question, which halachic standards are considered standard and how is it taught in school without offending people who are not up to that standard?
For example is halacha taught inside from the shulchan aruch? Which piskei halacha are chosen as the standard if the community is so diverse?

amother

Whitewash

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:29 am

amother Amber wrote:

another chassidish woman here and I agree with ur first 2 points. to add to that, I really admire, and am kinda jealous of, the vast torah knowledge that MO women have. ( I know I know, I can learn it on my own, but its daunting to start it myself w/o a background in learning gemara or mishnayos. I'd love to one day though bc I think we should all have more text based, factual knowledge of yiddishkeit.)

the question I have is what the general opinion or perspective the MO community has abt the lgbtq community. I know the usual arguments ppl have for them is that u dont know what theyre doing in the bedroom, they might not be doing what the actual halacha says is wrong etc etc, but even just as a way of life how do you approach that? do you believe that according to the torah these are legitimate ways to live and build a home?
and for the record, I'm asking from a place of empathy for ppl in the lgbtq community; I think one of the biggest issues yiddishkeit doesnt really have good answers for is this, and I've had a hard time reconcliing what I believe is the Torah's view abt it with the empathy I have for them. so I'm curious abt the MO perspective.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:30 am

amother Seablue wrote:

Do you see a difference between the DL community in israel vs MO in US? From my outsider view it looks like the DL community is thriving and continuing whereas the children of MO in the US are either becoming black hat or less religious than their parents. I wonder what your thoughts are on that. I always wondered if the MO emphasis on secular college had something to with it.

As I wrote in a post somewhere above in this thread, all of the girls that I grew up with in america, are still modern orthodox. Its a thriving hashkafa. Not more to the right or more to the left. And going to college or university has no negative affects on the people who I am thinking of. It just helped them in their professional life.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:35 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

MO doesn’t teach Halacha. I went to an MO school in NY kindergarten through 12th and the first time I was introduced to Halacha (hilchos Shabbos, tznius, day to day, kashrus) was in seminary. There’s no uniform which is why MO makes no sense and isn’t an actual hashkafa. In the school I went to, the principal rabbi once told me they avoid Halacha because of kids come home telling their parents that they’re doing things wrong they won’t pay tuition and will take the kids out. I went to these schools - these are facts.

Wow, so much wrong with this reply. I learned halacha all of my elementary school life. Went to mo schools. Of course we learned hilchot shabbat, kashrut. I will say that tzniut is not taught the way it is in the charedi/black hat world. That is true.
And maybe to YOU mo makes no sense, but to so many others it makes PERFECT sense. And is very much a hashkafa. It is very different than the yeshivish/black hat/charedi hashkafa, but a full on hashkafa non the less.
Im sorry your school and principal were the way they were. They are not all like that.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:37 am

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

Your posts do not hold true for what I know and LIVE. Please, I asked for this thread to stay respectful. If you only have mean or negative things to say, please just dont say them.

MO is most definitely not a free for all. ANd just because the black hat world has uniformity doe NOT mean that a different hashkafa that does not haev uniformity is wrong. It is not. And it makes so much sense to those of us who live it.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:41 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

1. There is no law that says "every MO person must be a zionist". Every person decides on their own what they believe. Its unusual for a MO person to be anti the state, but it could happen. And nobody would throw him/her out.

2. Sure, why ever not? Again, thats a personal belief. There is not one view on such things.

3. Kollel is not really something that MO people do. But I dont think there would be hostility, justa bit of confusion for a bit.

amother

Seablue

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:44 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I’m curious about your age and where you grew up and wonder if you can say the same for the kids of your friends. I’m in my young 30s in the tri-state area and have met multiple people in my age bracket professionally that grew up MO and went to MO schools but secular colleges (not local so they were in a dorm setting and trying to straddle two worlds) and are no longer religious at all. I also have MO cousins that are younger than me and the ones that stayed in the US are no longer religious. The ones that moved to Israel are religious.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:47 am

amother Amber wrote:

Thats the whole point. MO have found a good balance. I grew up MO. My fatehr LOVED baseball. He loved talking about games and the different things connected to the games. But it was not an obsession. It was just something he liked a lot. ON the other side of that same coin, he had a chavruta every sunday and a chavruta group every shabbat morning after the early minyan and a different chavruta every other shabbat afternoon before mincha. Balance. Thats exaclty the point.
And even if a kid does become obsessed with some cultural thing (My daughter and a friend love following info about the eurovision, and then watching it) So what? On the other side of that same coin, my daughter volunteers with special needs kids and also visits an elderly woman once a week. Its just an ingrown thing in our world, balance.

heidi

Fri, Oct 06 2023, 2:47 am

amother Mauve wrote:

I don't think a typical MO person would have a belief system whereby they know what the will of Hashem is.

I reported your post
How incredibly nasty
And so amazingly naive
The MO women I live with and know and respect are incredibly well versed in halacha. They strive to understand. Unfortunately, as in every society there are those who are less willing to do the work. As in speaking lashon hara, which so many people across the spectrum do, but would never be accused of not knowing what Hashem wants.
MO definitely has its weak points as I myself listed earlier in the thread.
But people are aware and attuned to halacha.