Salary norms, London UK

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:07 pm

Looking for advice and opinions please.

I'm a small business owner with a small number of employees. One of my assistants is with me since June 2020. She started out as an ex seminary girl and I was paying her £11 an hour. This was a significant upgrade from her teaching job where she was getting only £7.50 an hour. I slowly upped her wage as much as I could afford over time. She now is married and has a baby. When she left on maternity leave, I paid her £14 ph. She is returning to work for me in january and she asked for a pay rise on her return. I thought about it and the most I can afford to offer is £18ph. She isn't happy. She also wants me to pay the shortfall that she has to supplement to her babysitter, after childcare benefits ( she pays £120 a week and gets 80% back). And she also would like £20 ph besides that.

For context, she works 16 hours a week Monday to Thursday and her hours are flexible. She can come and go whenever she wants as long as the work gets done. She loves that. She also gets full holiday pay for winter and summer holidays, plus yamim tovim. She's a good worker, but not irreplaceable. I can take someone new and pay less but the training in process is tedious and will take a few hours of my time for a good few weeks.

(My other employees are getting different rates but they work on a supply basis, I don't always have guaranteed work for them. Some of them work virtually. This is not relevant now.)

My question is, London imas who are familiar with going rates. What's reasonable, considering the details I have provided? What are your thoughts?

amother

Daphne

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:12 pm

I am not in London and don’t know rates, but what is the work she does worth to you. How hard would she be to replace? How much would you pay? Can your other employees who are not full time cover her responsibilities?
(The way you are explaining it, it sounds like she is entitled. She wants a 30% raise and an extra 35£ -making you the one paying for childcare. Furthermore, as her job is super flexible, how many hours of childcare are beings paid for and why would taht ne your responsibility?
That might not be the case at all, just how it sounds.)

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:16 pm

amother Daphne wrote:

As I mentioned in my op, she's not irreplaceable. She doesn't have specific skills besides for what I taught her. She's actually a very pleasant personality and we work beautifully together. This is the first time I've come across an entitled attitude and it surprised me I I started second guessing myself. Maybe I am underpaying her?

It would be very easy for me to find a replacement, but training in someone new is time consuming and I don't have the energy for that now.

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:18 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

Wow it is quite an increase to go from £11 to £20 in 3 years. I work in a school for around £11.50 an hour but that is considered normal for a school, offices definitely pay more.

I do know of some offices who pay towards the staff`s childcare costs. For example, you agree to raise her wage to £15/£16 an hour and then pay £3 per hour towards her childcare costs.

Yeah schools pay a lower rate generally but they usually have crèche facilities so there's no childcare issues.

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:27 pm

amother Yarrow wrote:

I have a pretty similar sounding job (in london), also 16 hours a week. I think £15-£20 /hour is the ballpark, so £18 is definitely on the nicer side.

What I'm curious about is how she gets full holiday and yomtov pay? Do you split annual salary over 12 months or do you pay her even on the weeks she's not working?

I pay her 52 weeks a year
She gets to take off 4 weeks summer, 1 week winter, all yamim tovim, all the revs, and an extra week before Pesach. Fully paid.

amother

Oak

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:27 pm

It does sound a little entitled but I don't know her financial situation. You're offering a £4 increase in salary to her previous wage, and she's asking for childcare to be paid by you, plus an extra £2. That does sound a bit much.
Can you afford to do that for your business? It's a lot of extra money. Are you able to ask around other small businesses what they pay their assistants?
To me the flexible hours alone are worth money, as is full pay for holidays and yomim tovim. If only I lived in London, I'd come and work for you in a shot, and I'd only ask for the £18 Very Happy

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:37 pm

amother Oak wrote:

Thanks for this. I'm a people pleaser by nature and this threw me off. Financially, she doesn't depend on the money. I also know that she loves her job. I'm going to work up the courage to politely stick to my original offer. And if she turns it down and leaves, please come and work for me!

And about being able to afford it, it's possible. I can do it if it would mean enough to me. But it would cut in to my business profits.

amother

Daisy

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 5:40 pm

I'm not in London but I am in the UK. The amount you are currently paying her is generous given the flexibility and holiday pay, but it's worth paying well and keeping your employees happy if you want to keep them.

To me it sounds like she is asking too much of a raise at once. What extra is she bringing to the company for the money she is asking? A pay rise should not be - I need to earn more so I'm expecting you to pay me more - but it should be - since my last raise I have added this this and this to the company and am therefore worth more to you.

I don't think you have to meet her demands, will she really be able to find a job with better pay and all the perks that you give her, but it may be worth trying to meet her part way, to keep her happy.

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 6:06 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

She isn't adding anything new or more. If anything, she might even be less commited or distracted because she has a newborn now. Time will tell. I find it hard to believe that she will find something as flexible as the same pay grade but I can't know for sure

amother

NeonBlue

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 6:08 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

Totally agree.

You are paying her very very nicely

Ruchi

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 2:07 am

amother OP wrote:

Your assistant is asking from you a very unreasonable rate. You are giving her a very generous package as it is, which includes 7 weeks paid for summer and winter holidays. Only schools pay for such holidays, but give a very low pay.
I have never heard of such a massive increase in in 3 1/2 years. I'm concerned that your assistant might be taking advantage of your kindness generosity until now.
She would never find a job like yours anywhere else, offering her the flexibility and extra paid holidays.
Perhaps you can consider increasing somewhat her wages but then deduct the 7 weeks of holidays when she doesn't work.

amother

Glitter

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 2:53 am

As a fellow employer, here are some points to think about!

When you calculate the rate paid per hours realy worked -the total rate divided by how many hours actualy worked (not the holiday hours!) She is paid way way way more than £18!.

Another point is she paid 'fully on a payroll' ? If she is- check out what is the holiday entitelment for the amount of hours she works per week...there is a clear formula for how much paid holiday a person gets vss the hours they work. you are probably paying her too much! No official employment pays 7 weeks paid holiday and certainly not for part time ( anything other than 9-5..)

If she is not 'on a payroll'...iukuk..then she is not entitled to any paid holidays!

Lastly her age. When they come with that entitlement- I had an under 18 year old first time worker who left seminary early quoting figures, well, youve gotta be on top of your game and know up to date employment laws. under 18s have a much lower threshold for minimum wage etc...

Not to say your worker deserves just minimum wage but when they come in with unrealistic demands, bare in mind that if she were to have to find another job most likely they would insist on ' full payroll' and many other things that would greatly reduce her Universal credit she is presumably on and would find herself pining to come back to you.

Then again as an employer you probably know all this??

amother

Moonstone

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 3:07 am

If she is below the UC threshold then she can get 85%of her childcare costs paid by the government and lots other besides. She should apply to UC (assume you pay her on the books and her childcare is legal) If her childminder it isn't registered then it is illegal and so she can't apply to UC for assistance. I would be surprised if working those few hours at that rate she isn't entitled to some UC help, she can check online or you can as well.

amother

Outerspace

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 4:38 am

£11 is the norm for starting. Jumping to £18 so fast is definitely not the norm. I think norm is a raise of £1-2 per year. I think you should think ahead, what's she going to be asking you to pay her in 2-3 years at this rate?

You have a couple of options here. Either talk to her. Have an honest conversation. Tell her that you're happy with her but she's not irreplaceable and if she's going to go overboard with her demands then you'll replace her. Maybe ask her where these demands are coming from? It could be her husband or someone else in her life putting pressure on her to ask?

Or your other option is to give her the raise and pay childcare but stop paying holidays and yom tov. You pay her for the hours she works and that's it.

You sound like a really nice boss btw.

English3

Sun, Jan 07 2024, 6:01 am

Op you are overpaying her. Sorry but no one that age earns so much including childcare. Even if its based on job description. A normal pay rise is one or two pounds max per year. Just because she had a baby she doesn't deserve more money. Raises come from showing how you have grown in the company.
Most men make 14 pounds that age.
I know people ,like her that insisted on being paid much higher than the norm. Most opened there own companies as no one pays this amount.