Lying to your kids

Chayalle

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:54 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

Child of lying parents here Hooray

. Its totally confusing and causes the child to be confused, to lose confidence in the world (as parents you are their world), in G-d and religion, in authority or any authoritative figures, Children can be totally messed up by the lies. - not knowing whats true and whats not, whats real, whats not.
And worse, you teach children to lie as well. Not realizing that its wrong.

My parents were honest with us. Said no when no was no. Told me about babies coming (I remember feeling my little sister kick when I was 5). Answered questions truthfully when I asked them.
And told me the brown spots on a banana were honey.
I don't consider that a lie.

amother

Zinnia

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:10 am

amother Wandflower wrote:

Child of lying parents here Hooray

What type of things did they lie about?

amother

Peachpuff

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:28 am

I think there's rebranding and there's lying. If I decide to name my new dish meat pizza because I used tomato sauce, and my kids will then eat it because it has the name pizza, I don't think that's lying.
Saying the spots on the banana is like honey, or it tastes sweeter, like honey, again that's making a comparison, not saying I've gone and spread honey on the banana.
Also some truths are subjective. I think my dd is gorgeous, but you might think differently as it's not your child.
I don't think children should be lied to deceptively. Like if your 4yo asked whether babies grow in your tummy and you say no they don't, actually they grow in a plant pot in hospitals and you go and pick one. You don't want to teach them something they will need to unlearn or that is outright wrong. You can stick to basics or say I'm not going to discuss.
And I think that is the difference.

amother

Pistachio

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 11:00 am

I won't even tell my kids "there r no more cookies " when I want them to stop asking. I'll say " sorry we're not having anymore cookies now" I'm very careful about not lying to kids. Honestly is the best thing you can teach them. My mom told me relish was made from frogs legs and I believed her. She also told me the lady we visited in a nursing home switched nursing homes when in reality she died. I will never forget these lies

amother

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 11:44 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Something tells me you don't have a very harmonious relationship with your MIL.
There are instances where it's OK to say a white lie for for shlom bayit for example.

🤔. Nah I have a nice relationship with her. I don’t have to agree with her parenting methods 🤷🏼‍♀️

amother

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 11:49 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

Do you have a 3 year old? It most certainly wouldn’t have the same effect.

If it was me, I’d probable call it “banana honey” like someone said and I’d consider it rebranding, not lying. (Mostly I just cut off the brown spots for them and half the banana ends up in the garbage Can't Believe It

)

I also wouldn’t make up what it says on a container, but my bigger kids would and then my three year old would “show” them that it really says “for kids only” and she’d probably win LOL

so I’m not too worried about it.

ETA that I don’t lie about real things. My kids know about their bodies and where babies come from in an age appropriate way. We talk about what’s going on in the world and when they ask me questions, I always answer truthfully. I just think using toddler level logic/words on toddlers is ok and isn’t the same as lying and I wouldn’t be disturbed if my mil spoke that way.

I have a three and five year old and I tell them it’s a little sweeter but if they don’t like it they don’t have to eat it.

As for the yogurt incident it was because the child was throwing a tantrum and she wanted him to be quiet. To me it seemed like she was shirking a situation that was hard for her (dealing with a crying child) and lied to get out of it.

Bnei Berak 10

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 11:58 am

amother OP wrote:

If the incident happens in her house I can understand her. Who enjoys a tantrum? In fact she avoided a power struggle "yoghurts are for adults only" by lying.

amother

Broom

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 12:19 pm

OP, I agree with you that casual lying is not okay. However, like others said, most of your examples were rebranding and not true lying.
For the yogurt situation though, if I were to say straight out "It says only for adults on the container", I would actually go ahead and write it on there with a permanent marker so it's not a lie. Altering truth is on occasion okay for shalom bayis, but as much as possible I'd try to make it less of a lie. For example, my preschooler is super clingy at night and wants me to stay with her until she falls asleep. I'm trying to train her to not rely on me, so I'll often say "Mommy has to go to the bathroom now" in order to be able to leave the room. But I will actually go the bathroom room afterwards and do some random activity there just so it's not a lie.
I think this is a sensitivity and a beautiful one at that, but I certainly wouldn't judge others if they're not at that level, especially midst a grandchild's tantrum.

amother

Zinnia

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 12:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

Was it your kid?

amother

Purple

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 6:07 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Not true, actually.
R' Avigdor Miller discusses this on a tape I heard once....it's been a while and I don't want to say this inaccurately (no pun intended here)....but he says that truth is sometimes subjective. We are not always meant to say the truth. That's why the Torah doesn't outright say "don't lie". It says "M'dvar Sheker Tirchak" - distance yourself from falsehood. But there are times where the truth is not desireable.

Examples - we say "Kallah Naeh V'Chasuda" even if the bride is not pretty.
And we sometimes stretch the truth to make peace.....

So it's not so black and white.

OP, I agree about generally being truthful to kids, but some of your examples show a little rigidity on your part. I think the brown spots on the banana could be presented as a type of honey (I was brought up that way, and I have no major resentment about it). I wouldn't say the yogurt container says something it doesn't, though.

There are varying levels of truth, or depends on situation on how much you reveal, its all how you spin it. HOWEVER, what you quote I think it is just the opposite - It says "M'dvar Sheker Tirchak" - distance yourself from falsehood, ie anything related to not the truth, stay away from - lies, mistruths, white lies... It starts with kids feeling its ok to say to a younger child that yoghurt container says that, then they feel its ok to lie to their teachers, and before you know it they are filling out government forms with incorrect information.

amother

Currant

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 6:22 pm

amother Broom wrote:

I also do the bathroom thing! I say I’m going to the bathroom and I go right near the bathroom after