S/O for those of you that don’t eat fleishig during the week

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:41 pm

Amarante wrote:

This thread is wild because there are so many posts that are dealing with completely different factual situations.

Vegetables - nutritious and delicious ones - are NOT more expensive than animal protein.

On the other hand chicken wings might be less expensive than chicken breast but the per pound cost of edible food is probably higher since wings are skin, fat, bone and gristle with very little meat.

Of course there are vegetables that are more expensive than other vegetables - especially out of season but there are plenty of nutritious and delicious vegetables that are inexpensive - and not difficult or time consuming to prepare in a way that most people would enjoy eating.

Animal protein doesn't need to be consumed in a huge quantity in order for people to feel satiated. Satiation is also a product of volume as well as timing. It takes about 20 minutes from the first 'bite" for the brain and body chemistry to register satiation which is why advice is to slow down or even artificially slow down by having a salad or clear type of soup before the main course.

Also lasting satiation is achieved by having meals (or snacks) consist of fat, protein and complex carbs or even simpler carbs depending on nutrition. Carbs are digested relatively quickly which is why they are a great snack to satisfy immediate hunger but they also are digested as quickly so that they don't offer lasting satiation. Fats take a bit longer but stay the longest which is why a meal with a moderate amount of fat keeps one feeling full for a longer period of time. An protein is in the middle.

A well balanced meal (or snack) would have all these components so the satiation would be quick and also lasting. Even snacks can be balanced - I.e a bit of peanut butter; veggie or fruit and a whole wheat half English muffin or crackers or the equivalent in terms of carb; protein and fat.

Name them. I live in New Jersey. Name me nutritious delicious cheap vegetables or fruit that I can buy that my kids will eat.

Do you know that an apple costs more than a bag of chips where I live? And pears and peaches and oranges cost even more.

Of course I want my family to be healthy! Show me how. Don't just say it's possible. It's not obvious in case you're wondering.

I can feed my family with a package of chicken ($10), a pan of rice ($2) and everyone will be full and happy. Yes, serving an extra $5 worth of vegetables every night makes a difference in my budget. I do it anyways but don't pretend it's not a thing.

amother

Chestnut

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:45 pm

Aurora wrote:

This. My kids usually really like fresh veggies, if different ones. If I offer a choice between veggies and potato chips, of course they want chips. But if they're offered a choice between, say, carrot sticks and celery, both of which have a good shelf life, they'll pick one and still be happy

Which circles back to the other thread in which people were vehement that if one in any way limited low nutritional types of snacks. one was setting children up for an eating disorder because it was being restricted unduly and therefore they would gorge on this when freely available.

Most people have an appetite versus actual hunger.

When I went to a nutritionist, she actually explained how having a variety of tastes will cause people to eat more even if they have had a full and very satisfying meal. The corollary is that one gets tired of the same flavors which is why binging might consist of alternating flavors - I.e. salty chips with ice cream or cookies. it is also why people can often eat dessert even if they are "full" from the dinner entree.

I generally ask myself whether an orange, berries, apple or similar food will satisfy me or is it that I am craving ice cream or a cookie.

Amarante

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:54 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

Tomato sauce is actually a very healthy vegetable so make chicken in tomato sauce. Onions are nutritious as well.

Do your children like Cole Slaw - most kids do.

Sweet potatoes are inexpensive and extremely nutritious.

Do your children like carrots roasted?

What about frozen mixed vegetables - your children don't like peas and carrots? A huge bag of these are very inexpensive per serving.

where are you buying fruit such that an orange, apple or banana are so expensive. A banana is about 20 cents in the regular grocery store. A large bag of apples or oranges is similarly relatively inexpensive.

Instead of spending money on chips, make popcorn - you can make some delicious flavored varieties and use the money on more nutritious foods if your budget is that tight.

And you can find some really good less expensive meals. I make a brown rice casserole with tofu and lots of vegetables that is very kid friendly - just an example.

amother

Ebony

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:55 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

I can feed my family with a package of chicken ($10), a pan of rice ($2) and everyone will be full and happy. Yes, serving an extra $5 worth of vegetables every night makes a difference in my budget. I do it anyways but don't pretend it's not a thing.

So, where I live, it would be double (at the very least probably more, closer to triple) to feed a family that very same meal. A casserole with tuna and cheese would probably come out to the amount you use to make a chicken and rice meal--about $12. (approx $6 for a package of cheese, $3-4 dollars for 2 boxes of pasta, $2-3 dollars for a can of tuna) . I guess that is the divide in this thread. If chicken/meat would suddenly double in the tristate area, people would cut back, because they wouldn't have a choice. (Something to think about before people pick up and move oot to save on housing costs....it probably evens out.)

Amarante

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 12:59 pm

Cabbage is cheap and very healthy - you can simplify by using bagged cut cabbage but it is obviously cheaper to shred your own which goes pretty quickly with a food processor

My kids love this

Fusion Coleslaw

Serves 4 to 6

3 cups shredded red cabbage
3 cups shredded Napa cabbage
2 large carrots, coarsely grated
3 small green onions, thinly sliced
2 tablespoons toasted sesame oil
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
3 tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon unseasoned rice vinegar
2 ½ teaspoons sugar
¾ teaspoon sambal oelek - I used sriracha but any hot sauce works
1 tablespoon peeled and finely grated ginger
¼ teaspoon salt, or to taste
½ cup honey-roasted peanuts, coarsely chopped
½ cup raisins
2 tablespoons toasted sesame seeds

1. Place red cabbage, Napa cabbage, carrots and green onions in a large bowl.

2. Combine sesame oil, vegetable oil, vinegar, sugar, sambal oelek, ginger and salt in a small bowl; whisk to combine. Taste for seasoning, adding more sambal oelek and salt to taste.

3. Pour dressing over the vegetables and toss to combine. Add peanuts and raisins and toss again. Refrigerate, covered, to allow flavors to develop, 2 to 4 hours. Stir in sesame seeds just before serving, and serve chilled.

Kitchen Note: There are many hot chile pepper pastes used as table condiments in China and Southeast Asia; sambal oelek is the most common and most popular. Containing chiles, salt, vinegar and sometimes garlic and tamarind, the fiery paste gives food a powerful flavor boost.

amother

Burntblack

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:02 pm

Amarante wrote:

This is a side dish, no? What is the main?

Amarante

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:09 pm

amother Burntblack wrote:

This is a side dish, no? What is the main?

Yes it's a side. I was responding to the woman who said that vegetables are more expensive than animal protein.

I was pointing out that lots of vegetables are not expensive like cabbage and would be eaten by children - at least all of the children I know.

I also mentioned dishes that use tofu that are generally liked by everyone.

Carrots are very cheap - roasted them and most kids gobble them up.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:19 pm

Amarante wrote:

Sounds delicious, but I don't call this easy. And with all those ingredients together, some of which I don't have in the house, I don't know if it would even be that cheap.

amother

Burgundy

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:20 pm

Amarante wrote:

Tomato sauce, onions, bananas, and roasted carrots are great ideas.

Frozen mixed vegetables, not for my kids. Do you know any picky kids who eat frozen peas and carrots?

amother

Burntblack

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:23 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

Tomato sauce, onions, bananas, and roasted carrots are great ideas.

Frozen mixed vegetables, not for my kids. Do you know any picky kids who eat frozen peas and carrots?

Yes, mine do, but you need to cook them properly. Heat up oil in a frying pan, and pour in the still-frozen peas and carrots. Add salt, pepper, and garlic powder, and stir with a wooden spoon until the whiteness goes away.

Do not boil or steam them.

nylon

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:26 pm

Amarante, the problem is when you're calculating calories per dollar, which is an issue when you are on a budget. Many vegetables are inexpensive but not very filling which is an issue when you are feeding children. This is why when people don't eat meat they tend to bulk out the starch.

You can absolutely have very filling vegetarian meals, half of India manages nicely. In my house, we do have an issue because my husband and I have Type 2 diabetes and have to restrict how many carbohydrates we eat. I, unfortunately, do not like many bean and lentil dishes (I do like chickpeas, at least!) and my husband does not like tofu, and so we now serve fleishigs (most often chicken) more often than we did before we were diagnosed. When you have to control your carbs, the protein element of the meal becomes more prominent and you can't bulk out small portions of meat with lots of rice or pasta.

I will say that I have shopped around and found that produce prices can vary quite dramatically; the Asian supermarkets often have better quality and selection.

Amarante

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:27 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

Sounds delicious, but I don't call this easy. And with all those ingredients together, some of which I don't have in the house, I don't know if it would even be that cheap.

It is essentially mixing ingredients together especially if you use bagged salad. I literally can't think of any recipe that does't require some kind of minimal effort. And the advantage of a Cole slaw is that you prep it ahead of time because the flavors need to 'marrY' and so it simplifies actual meal when you are more crunched for time.

The only ingredient which isn't a normal pantry staple for most people would be the honey roasted peanuts - but buy them once and store and the cost for 1/2 cup is minimal. They are $4.99 at Oh Nuts and would provide a number of servings - not to mention that peanuts themselves are nutritious so you aren't adding completely empty calories

2 tablespoons toasted sesame oil - standard in most kitchens
1 tablespoon vegetable oil standard in most kitchens
3 tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon unseasoned rice vinegar - vinegar is standard and is the basis for inexpensive easy to make salad dressing for any salad
2 ½ teaspoons sugar -standard in most kitchens
¾ teaspoon sambal oelek - used sriracha but any hot sauce works - most homes have some kind of hot sauce - Tabasco or other
1 tablespoon peeled and finely grated ginger - ginger is cheap and used in lots of recipes
¼ teaspoon salt, or to taste standard in most kitchens
½ cup honey-roasted peanuts, coarsely chopped - as discussed. Buy it and 1/2 cup is cheap
½ cup raisins - standard in most homes
2 tablespoons toasted sesame seeds - can be eliminated

Amarante

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:31 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

Tomato sauce, onions, bananas, and roasted carrots are great ideas.

Frozen mixed vegetables, not for my kids. Do you know any picky kids who eat frozen peas and carrots?

Yes in fact I know kids who love them.

But what about in a vegetable soup?

Tomato soup is cheap and tomatoes are a good source of nutrition

Canned tomatoes are very cheap especially on sale.

Frozen corn is cheap. I make a corn and bean salad that is very kid friendly.

I don't know if you want to potchke but you can puree mixed vegetables and make them into a fritter or pancake. I have a recipe for that.

amother

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:32 pm

Those of you who serve your families beans, tofu, farro, chickpeas what kind of background are you? How old are your kids? I cannot imagine any kid I know eating a black bean burger or a chickpea feta salad. Those are adult foods. It seems either you live in a completely different culture than me or you are out to lunch and completely out of touch with reality as far as what kids eat.
I have a family member who feeds her husband peanut butter sandwiches for lunch and claims he’s full. Well guess what he goes to takeout and buys food to fill himself up almost everyday. So all this penny pinching ain’t doing nothing! I wonder how many of you saying you serve this cheaper version or vegetarian have family members doing the same or eating more by shul, a friend..

amother

Chestnut

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:35 pm

amother Burntblack wrote:

Preparation is key as many people are just terrible cooks. LOL

I had a friend over for dinner and I made a Chinese Roasted Green Bean dish which was a revelation to her because she thought she hate string beans. Her mother boiled them until they were gray and then just plopped them on a plate. Of course she hated them.

Same thing with spinach. Boiled it's slimy and tasteless. Sauted with garlic and olive oil briefly and it's divine.

Collard greens/mustard greens - delicious and a power house of nutrition. Delicious cooked with a smoked turkey leg.

amother

Chestnut

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

You serve kids foods as a given as soon as they start eating 'real" food. If your family approaches it as something weird then a kid is going to think it is weird.

There is no reason kids automatically don't like something.

Obviously kids have preferences and go through phases but there is no inherent reason a kid wouldn't like a well prepared veggie burger. My kids would microwave a Dr. Pragers veggie burger as a snack - even without a bun.

I was raised to eat eclectic foods with respect for some stuff I really didn't like such as olives. My father used to joke and say if I ate one olive the first day and two the next day and so on I would start to like them and I would tell him I had no motivation to learn to like olives and he would laugh.

My kids are raised with a similar approach. They are asked to try the food but since it is treated as 'ordinary" food it is not as if this is something that is alien to them which they are being forced to eat "for their own good".

amother

Daisy

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:52 pm

amother OP wrote:

My background? I grew up in a litvish home in Brooklyn. No idea why that makes a difference. My kids have always been exposed to normal foods, and they continue to eat normal foods. They absolutely love chickpea feta salad, and so do I so it doesn't surprise me. Most cultures around the world don't believe that kids and adults eat different types of food. You eat what you're used to.

amother

Azalea

Sun, Apr 07 2024, 1:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

Why does it matter if other people’s kids eat beans and tofu and feta?

I’m very American/ashkenazi though I cook foods from all kinds of backgrounds. My kids are 4-10 and they all love black beans for example. They want it at least once a week for dinner and leftovers for lunch. We cook them from dried beans in the pressure cooker with some seasonings and then lightly refry them. Serve with tortillas or taco shells and chopped tomato, shredded cabbage, avocado. Or in a bowl with some melted cheese and rice.

I don’t expect anyone else’s kids to eat it, but mine certainly do. There’s no developmental reason a kid has to prefer plain baked chicken to beans or chickpeas. It depends on taste and what they’re used to.

My kids happen to really like tofu. They also all like salmon. So beans, tofu + rice or noodles, and salmon are regular rotation. And homemade macaroni and cheese, baked ziti, French fries + eggs, soup + omelettes. I personally don’t obsess about how much protein any given dinner includes but that’s just me.

Some of my kids like chicken, some like beef, some don’t really like either. My husband loves everything. We only cook chicken and meat for shabbos. The meat dishes I prepare take more work and time than the pareve and dairy dishes I make during the week, and only cooking meat for shabbos makes it more special and means we waste less meat (which is very important to me/husband). Often this means we serve meat Friday night, motzi shabbos, and Sunday if we have enough leftovers. The other nights we cook pareve and milchig. Eating fleishik every day is just too much meat and hard to digest (for us. Everyone is different.) my family likes the variety and being able to have ice cream for dessert during the week 😝