Objections to Harry Potter?

Lechatchila Ariber

Wed, Jun 27 2007, 7:18 pm

Quote:

All the characters in the books are not Jewish. Sorcery is permitted to non-Jews... it's only prohibited to Jews.

really? so were the witches that Shaul hamelech was instructed to kill, all jewish?
I don't know so I'm asking.

as far as I'm aware sorcery is akin to avoida zora.

wicca is a relatively new religion in comparison with the sorcery that we are taught is evil. wicca actually combines several different facets of other religions together (according to my internet sorces- [...sorcerers Mr. Green

])

however sorcery was always considered evil
so yep I have objections to harry potter.

would you let your kids read xtian books?

TammyTammy

Wed, Jun 27 2007, 9:25 pm

EstiS wrote:

Quote:

All the characters in the books are not Jewish. Sorcery is permitted to non-Jews... it's only prohibited to Jews.

really? so were the witches that Shaul hamelech was instructed to kill, all jewish?
I don't know so I'm asking.

Do you have reason to think that they weren't Jewish?

Quote:

as far as I'm aware sorcery is akin to avoida zora.

As far as I'm aware, sorcery is not counted as avoda zara WRT the sheva mitzvos b'nei noach.

Quote:

wicca is a relatively new religion in comparison with the sorcery that we are taught is evil. wicca actually combines several different facets of other religions together (according to my internet sorces- [...sorcerers Mr. Green

])

however sorcery was always considered evil
so yep I have objections to harry potter.

would you let your kids read xtian books?

Oh, for heaven's sake.

Believe it or not, the books are *NOT* about sorcery. It's simply a setting. The books are about a struggle between good and evil. Sorcery is simply a tool in the book -- there are those that use it for good and those that use it for evil. The sorcery is simply a trapping of the setting, but it's not really about the sorcery.

In any event, as mentioned above, the sorcery as portrayed in the books has nothing to do with Wicca. No Esbats are performed, no pagan forces are worshipped (in fact, aside from a few offhand references to x-mas, religion is absent from the books entirely). Your fears that your children are going to turn into Wiccans from reading Harry Potter is utterly groundless.

Furthermore, your kids probably won't make the connection between the sorcery in the books and Wicca if you don't tell them. I let my kids read The Chronicles of Narnia... and they had no idea that the entire story (at least the first book) is an allegory to the Resurrection of Yoshke. They enjoyed it as simply a story... much as my oldest enjoyed Animal Farm without knowing at first what that story represented.

Tammy

Lechatchila Ariber

Thu, Jun 28 2007, 8:05 am

If someone decides that this is something they want to be strict about in their chinuch with their kids I don't think its your place to comment "get a life"
Some people feel strongly about it and thats their perogative.
I don't think OP started this thread in order to have people criticize but rather to discuss the issue and I think this reaction is quite rude and inappropriate.
Would you like to be told to "get a life" in regards to your chinuch decisions?

TammyTammy

Thu, Jun 28 2007, 12:06 pm

EstiS wrote:

No, the point was this:

If you feel that non-Jewish books in general are bad, or if you have, for hashkafic reasons, an objection to sorcery, then fine. I may not agree with you, but at least it's logical and based on factors that make logical sense.

If your objection is that you're afraid that your daughter might join a Wiccan coven or adopt a gothic lifestyle because of it, then it shows that you know nothing of Harry Potter, Wicca or goth. *That* is silly and while I wouldn't say "get a life" to it, I would advise the person to become more knowledgeable so that they can make an accurate judgment.

Tammy

southernbubby

Thu, Jun 28 2007, 2:46 pm

There have been cults that the majority of the members were Jews. I don't know much about them anymore because the focus in the frum world has been taken off of cults and put on other issues. Maybe southernshalom has learned that wicca is full of Jews and figures that they got their interest from reading Harry Potter. I suppose that if a young person wants to leave yiddishkeit than anything is possible. Personally, I don't see the books as a major threat, but neither would I spend good Jewish gelt on them.
The other issue is in bashing or answering posters in rude ways. When I called Yael's own mother today to tell her mazel tov and that I saw it on her daughter's website, she admitted to not logging on to her own daughter's website because she had been treated rudely. She is extremely busy anyway but people should try to ease up on the nastiness so that this kind, gentle woman could at least shep nachas from her daughter's hard work!

TammyTammy

Thu, Jun 28 2007, 4:48 pm

SouthernShalom wrote:

Thanks Brooklyn I appreciate your concern but I was born with a life and I am trying to make the best of it.
I spent some of yesterday on the internet looking for references to Harry Potter and wicca or witchcraft. I actually read some of the forums where these kids are talking about their life in wicca and witchcraft. I will have you know that many of them were very into the Harry Potter books and they put a little more stock in them than you guys do. I am not saying that Harry Potter is about wicca or that they are practicing it. All I am saying is that it leads to them being facinated with the idea of spells and such. I think you have your head in the sand if you don't believe that kids get into this stuff. Newsflash alot of goth kids are into this stuff. I grew up arround it. I wen't to public school with them. They would have parties and use wija(spelling?) boards. They would have seances and other crazy stuff that may or may not be real. To them it was real. To some it is a religion. There are lots of crazy cults out there(especially here in the south). They are just as much of a concern to the welfare of my children as any other religion. If you don't like my opinion thats fine. I can agree to disagree but I didn't tell you to get a life b/c you let your children read harry potter. I just wanted to know if anyone else had the same prob with it. So you don't, thats o.k. I am fine to believe that on my own. Have a good day! I am done with this thread I will not post on it anymore. I am moving on to nicer subjects. Confused

You're making an elementary mistake here. You're taking a population that *already has* an interest in magic, goth or whatever and asking them if they like HP. I have no doubt whatsoever that the many of them do. But that's not the same thing as asking if reading the books by someone who is not already in the group will be attracted to it because of the books.

Or to use an example: If you ask Jews if they like Fiddler on the Roof, you will probably get a large group of them who do. But that doesn't mean that non-Jews who see Fiddler are going to run out and become Jews because they saw it on Broadway.

Tammy

brooklyn

Mon, Jul 02 2007, 7:57 am

SouthernShalom wrote:

Like I said before, maybe you have other issues that need to be addressed.

HindaRochel

Fri, Jul 20 2007, 3:02 am

Blossom wrote:

Justanotheramother, I'm with you. I actually did read the first book from cover to cover (don't know how I made it Wink

)and I still can't understand what this whole nonsense is all about. lol
I guess there must be something about it if people are going so nuts over it....it might have to do with having different reading taste buds.

Read the first book, was kind of bored with it. Another whiz kid boy whatever the nature of the superness was, who, regardless of what he does comes up on top. I didn't think her concept innovative enough (there was actually a book that preceeded hers about a male witch who looked quite similar and I think went through similar adventures) nor was I impresed with her writing style.

I also felt that, rather than wiccian principles, Xtian principles were being subtly pushed and I didn't like it.

But my four oldest read the books, my dh reads them and I have a style all my own. My reading pleasures differ from most people. I mean, who here has heard of Ligotti let alone read him?

TammyTammy

Thu, Oct 25 2007, 11:29 am

Chaya123 wrote:

I object to it bec I was raised to only read books written by Shomrei Torah U'Mitzvos and this certainly doesn't fall under that category.

So, I guess you never read your oven instruction manual? Very Happy

Seriously, however, that's fine. I may not agree with that type of objection, but I can certainly understand and respect it. It's the objections such as "it's going to lead my kids to witchcraft" that I find silly.

Tammy

Lechatchila Ariber

Thu, Oct 25 2007, 3:31 pm

faigie wrote:

estie....I kind of wonder if the critical parents ever even read the book that their saying is so usser..............

I've read one of the HP books.

TammyTammy wrote:

if you have, for hashkafic reasons, an objection to sorcery, then fine. I may not agree with you, but at least it's logical and based on factors that make logical sense

Yes that's how I feel.

Quote:

If your objection is that you're afraid that your daughter might join a Wicca coven or adopt a gothic lifestyle because of it, then it shows that you know nothing of Harry Potter, Wicca or Goth. *That* is silly and while I wouldn't say "get a life" to it, I would advise the person to become more knowledgeable so that they can make an accurate judgment.

did anyone actually say they are afraid their daughter will become wiccan or gothic? Confused

or were the objections raised here based on the hashkafic view against sorcery?

btw I don't associate wiccan with HP.
Its not only HP that I have objections to. There are a series of books, I forget the author or titles that are very fantastical, about different worlds and sorcery and all kinds of interesting stuff.
I read one book and was fascinated because I could tie in some of their concepts to concepts we have in yidishkeit, but I realized just how klippadik it was.
What ever we have in kedusha we also have a parallel in klipa and we need to watch out not to get sucked into these concepts, whether it means in a "trend" sort of way or in a more serious cultish sort of way.