Just wondering....re: vaxxing

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Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations

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Sleek

Thu, May 09 2019, 1:41 pm

I push off vaccinating my kids but eventually they get all their vaccines. Reading the thread about people who had the measles really scared me and I want to give the MMR asap.

top mom

Thu, May 09 2019, 1:46 pm

Deleted

Last edited by top mom on Thu, May 09 2019, 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

top mom

Thu, May 09 2019, 1:47 pm

Deleted

goldrose

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:06 pm

Anyone hear of Nick Catone? He's a famous boxer whose 15 month old son died within days of getting vaccines. He was pro vax. He gave the shots. The coroner labeled the death as SIDS, and refused to do certain tests to determine if the vaccines caused this child's death. Nick and his wife, a nurse, have the funds and they hired a private company to do the tests which showed the obvious cause of death.

The reason why most SIDS deaths are not labeled as VIDS (vaccine induced death syndrome) is simply because they won't do the proper testing.

Anyway, the non-vax (ex-vax) camp grows by default, not necessarily by discussions on imamother. Just as Nick Catone is now a fierce anti vaxxer, many others will unfortunately experience the harms of vaccines and stop vaccinating.

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:13 pm

goldrose wrote:

This author dissects their story:
https://www.skepticalraptor.co.....ines/

goldrose

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:16 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

This author dissects their story:
https://www.skepticalraptor.co.....ines/

I prefer to believe it straight from the ones who experienced it.

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:19 pm

goldrose wrote:

I prefer to believe it straight from the ones who experienced it.

So that means you automatically assume people never apply their own interpretation of events?

goldrose

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:24 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

So that means you automatically assume people never apply their own interpretation of events?

As if mr skeptical raptor can't possibly add his own interpretation of SOMEONE ELSE'S events - which is far more likely.

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:31 pm

goldrose wrote:

As if mr skeptical raptor can't possibly add his own interpretation of SOMEONE ELSE'S events - which is far more likely.

He is not interpreting the actual events what happened (the vaccine administration, timeline of death, etc.) He is responding to Nick Catone's interpretations of what he assumes happened inside his son's body, and his interpretation of the autopsy reports. And the author clearly states his reasoning, and how he reached that conclusion, for every single statement he makes.

Thats what doctors, policemen, investigators, and detectives do all the time. Victims falling prey to their own interpretations is extremely common. And they're wrong just as many times (if not more) than they're right. Humans tend to try to right wrongs by either applying a rationalization for it, or find a culprit to blame. They're the last people to be honestly objective about a situation.

goldrose

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:40 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

Except when all those ppl have an agenda. By all means they need to prevent anyone from doubting vaccines.

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:43 pm

goldrose wrote:

Except when all those ppl have an agenda. By all means they need to prevent anyone from doubting vaccines.

Did you read the article. It points out the agenda of Nick's wife.

I'm not speaking to who is right about this particular event. Just pointing out that Nick is equally not objective in this case, nor has any insight to reach the decisions he made. And using such cases as examples doesn't really benefit anti-vaxxers.

WastingTime

Thu, May 09 2019, 2:48 pm

Part of me hates these threads because I get so worked up that anti vaxxers exist, and I start worrying about my not-yet-vaccinated baby. And part of me likes these threads because it allows me to vent about antivaxxers and how they are making me worried sick about my baby

sirel

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:00 pm

I don't think it's convinced any hard core pro or anti.

But I'm sure it's given good information and sources for members who read the threads but don't have a strong opinion.

Remember, research has shown that in most internet forums, out of every 100 people reading a thread, between 5-10 will post.

Sometimes it feels like only the posters that are actively participating in the thread are reading, but that is far from the truth.

Those of you who post high caliber, quality posts - are having an effect. I guarantee it.

please never stop.

amother

Yellow

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:25 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

This author dissects their story:
https://www.skepticalraptor.co.....ines/

He lost me at this sentence:

Quote:

Scheibner’s ideas ignore the many other studies showing that vaccines don’t cause SIDS, or that vaccinations actually reduce the risk of SIDS. In relation to the vaccine in question, DTP and later DTaP, at least one study shows that higher rates of use of the vaccine are correlated with reduced rates of SIDS.

Because DTaP causes SIDS less often than DTP, the author concludes that vaccinations reduce the risk of SIDS? I mean, SIDS is listed on nearly every vaccine insert as a possible, albeit rare, side effect. Where's the logic in this statement?

Laiya

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:29 pm

goldrose wrote:

I asked this twice on the other thread when a similar claim was made, but received no real response. HOW did the vaccine cause the baby's death? Medically, what was the cause of death, and how was that caused by the vaccine?

And yes, I did look at Skeptical Raptor, and he lists three possibilities but then dismisses them: There's no way the death was caused by an allergic reaction. There was no brain swelling. No evidence of seizure.

If you or anyone has a basis to say that those facts are incorrect, or there is another possible way that a vaccine can cause a specific reaction in the body that results in death other than those two, please explain.

wrote:

A severe allergic reaction would be identifiable on autopsy. In any case, the timing – 17 days after the vaccine—is not consistent with an allergic reaction to the vaccine. A severe brain problem – swelling, or something else – would also leave signs, and it did not. A seizure might not, but the seizures associated with DTaP generally happen shortly after, and are fever associated – and there was no fever here.

There is nothing connecting this death to the vaccine. With millions of children vaccinated each year, some deaths from other causes (like SIDS) are going to happen right after vaccines by coincidence alone – it’s inevitable. This was not even close in time to the vaccination.

amother

Yellow

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:34 pm

He doesn't say there was no seizure because there's no way to know for certain. He says a seizure is associated with fever and there was no fever. Yet who's to say there was no seizure without fever? Or that the fever from a few days earlier is the one associated with a seizure? I'm no doctor or pathologist, but his reasonings aren't well-explained.

Laiya

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:39 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

Does he say that somewhere else? In the sentence you just quoted, he doesn't say that.

Laiya

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:50 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

The seizure that can happen as an effect of the DTaP, is caused by a fever. If a seizure occurred without a fever, how would you know that the seizure had anything to do with the vaccine? It's the fever, caused by the immune response to the vaccine, that can cause the seizure.

The baby did develop a fever two weeks later, but this wouldn't be related to the vaccine, as reactions to the DTaP occur 1-3 days after the vaccine.

amother

Indigo

Thu, May 09 2019, 4:02 pm

amother [ Yellow ] wrote:

He is proving precisely that - there's no way to know. There's no way to know with the available info if the vaccine did or did not contribute to the death. So using this story as a proof of the harms of the vaccine is a fallacy. It just highlights the emotions and subjectivity involved in all of this. The anti-vaxxers will cling to anything that may at face value bolster their case, without really looking into it. The vaxxer can do similarly when it comes to their viewpoints, but the thing is, at this point in time, history & science is almost completely on the vaxxer's side.

So, if they want to make their case, the anti-vaxxers need to come up with some solid medical/scientific evidence, and not resort to using subjective information or emotional plays to try to support their views.

amother

Ginger

Thu, May 09 2019, 4:12 pm

My pediatrician told me that he had a recent tragic experience with a 4 month old patient. The baby came in for a well visit and had a bit of a cold. This doctor's policy is to reschedule vaccinations in such a situation. The baby did not get his scheduled shots that day.
That very night, the child tragically passed away from SIDS. If he would have been vaccinated that day, this story would have been weaponized by the antivax movement.

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