S/O of "horrified" thread - sending kids away pp

amother

Puce

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:15 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

I’ll admit that I did not read all 9 pages of the thread. But why don’t you ask “was your baby traumatized by spending time by relatives/friends after you gave birth”? (I’m a huge believer in this, as someone who BH has normal births, but could use some rest postpartum, and have done it both ways, so I could compare...).

From experience, very few parents know to recognize when a child is traumatized by an experience like this one.

You're unlikely to receive many answers that the children were traumatized, even if professionals would tell you that there was definitely trauma there.

amother

Puce

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:17 pm

flowerpower wrote:

Thank you!

Back then there were no family or friends. Sending kids to orphanages when the mom had a baby or needed surgery was the norm.

Anyone that says they come home from the hospital to a house full of needy kids and minimal help and it’s “no big deal” is not a hero in my eyes but an idiot. Yes. An idiot. And that the dh is fine coping with the house, kids, his full time job is a liar.

Back in the day, if a child needed a surgery, the parents had visiting hours when they could see their child, and then they went home and the child stayed in the hospital, cared for by nurses.

Today such a thing is unfathomable. The hospitals expect a parent to stay, they are built for it, and it's understood that being left alone in the hospital is traumatizing for a child.

In the past kids may have been sent to orphanages after mommy gave birth, but that doesn't mean they didn't suffer serious trauma from it.

Moms need help and rest postpartum, but that help and rest shouldn't come at the expense of the kids.

keym

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:25 pm

I've been thinking about this a lot.
In general, I think more support needs to be made available for families to stay as a unit during crisis.
I'm talking as a child who's father was diagnosed with cancer before I started high school, and sat shiva with a four year old brother.
Throughout the illness, there was a lot of give the kids away to family (for months). Or send the 4 and 6 year old away for shiva- it's too hard.
Of course it's hard. But it created my beliefs.
Children should always feel that their house, their bed, their toys, their familiarity is there's. Support should be given in the house. If it's actually not possible, then the adults should leave. But kids need the security.
I've had conversations with siblings. Logically, we understood why we were by Bubby or Tante for 2,4,6 weeks at a time. Totty was sick.
But emotionally, we felt abandoned. We all struggle with abandonment issues. And all our assorted therapists say that it's not really from the sickness and death in the family.
But the uncertainty.
We got plenty of hugs, kisses, cuddles, treats.
But we felt rootless.

So with my therapists and specialists I planned as much as possible. Keep the kids at home. Of course a weekend at Bubby is fine. But not more. If I couldn't be home to watch my kids after birth, then I'd go to the kimpaturin heim and hire people to stay in my house.

That's where my passion comes from.

Be nice.

banana123

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:28 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Sending a 6 week baby to a babysitter is depressing, and another sign that the American healthcare system is the pits (come to Israel, 14 week maternity leave fully paid).

It's 15 weeks now, not 14. And that's still far from enough.

We also need better paternity leave policies. When dad can be home to help out, mom's risk of PPD drops significantly.

But each week of paid leave costs the country a pretty agora, so change is likely to happen very slowly.

lilies

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:30 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

People managed for centuries to have healthy marriages without going away for a week without their kids.

This culture of 'vacationing' without the kids is very modern and very Western, and it is not mandatory to leave your toddlers for a week if you want a happy marriage.

Where I live, hardly anyone leaves their non-verbal kids for even an overnight 'vacation', and most people seem to be happily married.

Besides, I keep reading here about women who were pressured by dh to leave young toddlers for a couple of days vacation, and spent the whole time stressed and anxious about their little ones. That's not a vacation in my book. The vacation can wait until your kids are big.

Kids were expected to be seen and not heard for centuries too.

In too many scenarios, a vacation absolutely cannot wait and it's effect is a much-needed revival of a healthy family life.

banana123

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:31 pm

keym wrote:

Keym, that sounds awful. I'm so sorry you went through all of that. Hug

amother

Gold

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:35 pm

keym wrote:

Thank you for sharing this perspective. It’s really valuable to hear this. And so sorry that you had to experience that!

Blessing1

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:35 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

It's not difficult to recognize when a child is traumatized. A healthy child from a healthy home with healthy parents should be able to handle staying at their loving relatives that they know very well without becoming traumatized. It is not a traumatic situation for a child to stay with loved ones. It is way more traumatic for a child to be cared for by a mother that gave birth 2 days ago and doesn't have energy to care for herself, a newborn, and older kids.

keym

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:37 pm

banana123 wrote:

Keym, that sounds awful. I'm so sorry you went through all of that. Hug

Of course it was awful. But it's "normal".
Meaning there was no abuse or true neglect.
I'm just putting an actual face on it.
There must have been 5-6 other families going through the same thing as me- a parent sick.
I never asked for each of their details, but I assume many of them had the same experience.
And this was "helpful".
Our community and my family showed up. Helped. Supported. Loved. Gave generously. This is not a Tayna on anyone person.
We didn't understand trauma and attachment.
We thought hugs, pizza, and a new doll would compensate for living out of a suitcase on the trundle bed in our cousins room for 2 weeks.
Turns out, many kids would prefer a sandwich and random babysitters and their own bed and their own old, familiar dolls.

lilies

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:37 pm

keym wrote:

Would it be okay if I pointed out some inconsistencies here?
The uncertainty of illness, even if a child is kept home with their routine moving on as usual, will effect their sense of security. The stress of the uncertainty and the lack of true emotional regulation (and explanation?) is the trauma factor more than the lack of personal space, though that is stressful.

If mom has a baby, and things are as expected, none of the uncertainty need to be present even if the child isn't home. If mom can't be home after birth, and hired people are in place of mom the potential trauma may happen in the same as if mom is home and kids are sent away.
I'd venture to say, given the choice, kids going away and knowing that mom is home where she belongs is a bigger comfort.

This might be a trigger point due to your personal experiences but these two scenarios are vastly different.

flowerpower

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:39 pm

This is my last post on this thread because I’m not getting anywhere anyways. You want to believe what you want to believe And I won’t change your mind. I remember as a kid going to my aunts house when mama had a baby. My kids do the same. I am fully emotionally stable as are my kids. They don’t need a therapist Bh and neither do I. No trauma. If kids are growing up in such a culture it’s the norm for them and they know to expect it. Many times people send away kids to grandparents for a month so they can spend time together- different state. Will they need therapy now?!

amother

Puce

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:41 pm

Blessing1 wrote:

:shrugs

Sure, if you say so.

lilies

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:42 pm

Blessing1 wrote:

I disagree.
Unless one is well-versed in trauma and attachment theory, it's not easy to recognize trauma. Some kids may seem to be handling some time away very well, when their anxiety is just being stuffed down.

I do agree there's potential equal trauma in either scenario - going away and staying home.

amother

Puce

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:43 pm

lilies wrote:

The difference is that the illness was not something the parents had a choice about. How they handled it certainly was.

Children understand that their parents don't want such an illness, and also that their parents are choosing to send them out. If there is anyways uncertainty and stress then at least it shouldn't be added to with additional trauma.

keym

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:47 pm

lilies wrote:

I hear. Could be, though like I said, the therapists I've consulted with over the years disagree

Just let me put out there that many specialists and behavioral experts consider the birth of a sibling a life altering circumstance that has the potential to be traumatizing.
It's recommended not to toilet train shortly before a baby, and many children regress (toileting, sleeping, thumb sucking) after the Mom has a baby.

With the potential of trauma there, I just put forth that we attempt to encourage kids to be able to stay at home, with hired help, support, etc. Just minimize potential trauma.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 2:54 pm

flowerpower wrote:

There is a difference between a child who understands the situation is temporary and a toddler.

This remind me of when my friend had no choice but to send her toddler away for two weeks while she accompanied another child to a different country to have surgery. When she returned the child who had stayed with loving relatives gave her the cold shoulder and took a long time to trust his mother again.

Imagine if one day your dh dropped you off at a cousin You have no idea what’s going on or if he’ll ever return. You can’t even talk to ask for explanation. Sounds traumatizing?

amother

Cerise

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:02 pm

lilies wrote:

Kids were expected to be seen and not heard for centuries too.

In too many scenarios, a vacation absolutely cannot wait and it's effect is a much-needed revival of a healthy family life.

OK, but you always need to weigh cost-benefit. Is your benefit from being away from the kids bigger than the trauma a non-verbal kid might experience when you disappear for a week or two?

Leaving all your toddlers for a week is not a must for a healthy marriage, at least under normal circumstances (not talking about extreme cases).

banana123

Thu, Oct 22 2020, 3:06 pm

small bean wrote:

I've never done it after a bay, but why is this different thean the parents going on vacation and leaving the kids by a relative?

It's different because when parents go on vacation, the children usually come back to the same home and family situation that they left. There is no additional change and upheaval, like there is after a new baby is born.

I wouldn't leave a non-verbal child, or a child under 3, in order to take a vacation, though.