Kennedy Curse? | Imamother

avigayil

Thu, May 18 2006, 10:48 am

Someone told me that the reason for the Kennedy problems is that Joe Kennedy Sr., way back in the 30's or 40's made a nasty anti-Semetic remark to a frum Jew. In turn, the man who he insulted said something to him about how the next generations about have bad things happen to them.

Has anyone heard of this? Is this true?

happy2beme

Thu, May 18 2006, 11:12 am

No, It was during the war & a Rav asked that the gov allow a boatload of Jews to be allowed into the country, Kennedy didn't let & they had to send the boatload of Jews away & they all got killed. It was a big Rebbe- I can't remember, but I'm sure other people here will Smile

I think I read it in one of Peysach Krohn's books.

chocolate moose

Thu, May 18 2006, 11:14 am

it's all over chabadtalk too

chen

Thu, May 18 2006, 12:18 pm

Joe Kennedy did not send the SS St. Louis back to Nazi Germany; he did not have the authority to do so. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt bich'vodo u-ve-atzmo gave the command to refuse the ship permission to land on United States soil, and ordered Coast Guard ships to patrol the shore to make sure that no refugees jumped ship and attempted to swim to safety. No doubt Kennedy approved of this action and perhaps advised the president to do this, but the ultimate responsibility lay with the president.

The "Kennedy curse" is a myth. Like any family, they have had their share of both good and bad fortune. The family is very large, very wealthy, very powerful, very much in the public eye, and has a long history of substance abuse and risk-taking in general. They put themselves in the path of bad fortune in a way that ordinary people seldom do.

When you are a head of state or close to one, you risk assassination. (While two assassinations in one family is a bit much for Americans to swallow, such things come as no surprise in other parts of the world where people are less naïve than in the US of A. just look at the family histories of the crowned heads of England and other countries.) when you fly a private plane at night despite the fact that your license does not give you permission to do so and you have very little experience doing so, you risk crashing that plane. When you drink to excess and then drive, you risk driving your car off a bridge and into a river.

One of the Kennedy brothers was killed in World War II. So what? So did millions of Joe Schmo American GI's. The Kennedys actually got off rather lightly--more than one family lost several sons in the war without benefit of a "family curse".

One Kennedy sister had mental problems. Again, so what? Probability dictates that in a family of 9 children, it is more likely that at least one of them will have problems than in a family of 3-4. Unsubstantiated claims are that Rose Mary wasn't really a mental problem at all, but that she was "wild", and that her father ordered her lobotomized to control her behavior, which was embarrassing him. maybe yes, maybe no, but not convincing evidence of a curse.

Rose Kennedy outlived 4 of her children. So what? So did my grandmother. So did many other women of her generation. What made her different was that she was rich and famous. Poor women don't make headlines and nobody cares.

What's "cursing" the Kennedys is their own behavior. The ones who don't drink, do drugs, fool around, or otherwise behave irresponsibly--and don't act as if their name and their wealth entitles them to do as they please, never mind what the laws of G-d or man may dictate--seem to be getting along just fine.

happy2beme

Thu, May 18 2006, 12:28 pm

sorry chen, but u can't say it's a myth without a source. I read it in a book (I think r' krohn) that it's an actual curse by a rav. I will try to find source

happy2beme

Thu, May 18 2006, 12:57 pm

ok, not in peysach krohn's book but in hanoch teller's! it's coming back to me slowly...

chen

Thu, May 18 2006, 1:10 pm

when someone gives me actual documentation (sorry, someone's say-so in a feldheim book--even such respected storytellers as krohn and teller-- doesn't count. Krohn and Teller are storytellers, not documentors of history), then I will believe. what would I consider documentation? a quote from the rav's diary or a letter in which he writes "today I cursed this person with such-and-such words".

happy2beme

Thu, May 18 2006, 1:33 pm

ok chen, I guess I will stop trying to find it in the books since you won't believe it either way. thanks- u saved me a lot of time!

ILOVELIFE

Sat, May 20 2006, 10:59 pm

'Will have to call my father tomm IYH. I believe it was the previous Skverer Rebbe if I'm not mistaken who said that each of the brothers will die in an unusual way.

Crayon210

Sat, May 20 2006, 11:49 pm

This so-called curse has been attributed to so many different rabbonim (Satmar Rebbe, R. Yisroel Jacobson, Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn, R. Aharon Kotler...) that I find it difficult to believe that it's true unless, as chen says, someone has reliable documentation attributing this to one (or more?) of them.

ILOVELIFE

Sun, May 21 2006, 12:15 am

BTW, here are some of the unusual tragedies that happened to the Kennedy family.

1944: Joseph Kennedy, Jr. died at 29 in a plane explosion on a secret mission in World war 11.
1948: Kathleen Kennedy died at 29 in a plane crash.
1955: Ethel Kennedy's parents were killed in a plane crash.
1961: Joseph Kennedy suffered a massive stroke, which robbed him of the ability to speak.
1962: Marilyn Monroe, lover of both John & Robert Kennedy, died at 35 of a sleeping pill overdose.
1963: Patrick, son of Jackie & John Kennedy, died two days after his birth.
1963: John F. Kennedy was assassinated at the age of 46.
1964: Edward Kennedy was injured a plane crash, in which the pilot & an aide were killed.
1969: He drove his car off a Chappaquiddick Island bridge in Massachusetts in which Mary Jo Kopechne drowned.
1991: William Kennedy Smith was accused of raping a woman at the family's Palm Beach estate.
1994: Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis died of cancer at 64.
1997: Michael Kennedy was accused of having an affair with his children's 14-year-old baby sitter. He died later that year on a ski slope in Aspen, Colorado.
1999: John F. Kennedy, Jr., his wife Carolyn, & his sister-in-law Lauren Besette died in the crash of a plane, he was piloting.
1999: John's cousin & best friend, Anthony Radziwill, died of testicular cancer.
2001: A son-in-law of Maurice Tempelsman, the longtime companion of Jackie Onassis, died aboard American Airlines Flight 77 when it crashed into the Pentagon after being hijacked by terrorists.
2002: Michael Skakel was convicted of the 27-year-old murder of Martha Moxley.
2003: Kara Kennedy, Edward's daughter, was treated for lung cancer.

amother

Tue, Jul 18 2006, 6:23 pm

Edwards son lost a leg to cancer

faigie

Tue, Jul 18 2006, 7:15 pm

umm guys.. john jr was a super nice guy, and even did random chasadim,....... but he had NO brains..........trust me on that one.

Ruchel

Tue, Jul 18 2006, 7:32 pm

I think their lack of honestly and morals caused them many problems.

ShakleeMom

Wed, Dec 31 2008, 7:31 pm

the Marilyn Monroe curse :-)

poemmom

Wed, Dec 31 2008, 8:43 pm

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Last edited by poemmom on Thu, Jan 01 2009, 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total

out-of-town

Wed, Dec 31 2008, 8:59 pm

One of the Kennedy's even married a jew to try to get away from the curse.

Fox

Wed, Dec 31 2008, 10:12 pm

Aside from giving into the temptation to gossip about non jews in high places, I think it's always beneficial to examine such stories and see what can be learned from them.

Joseph Kennedy, Sr., was known for his ruthless and sometimes illegal business practices, including his active role in bootlegging during Prohibition. He was known equally for being a tyrannical father to his children, relentless in his demands that they always appear among the best and brightest. His treatment of his wife was often cruel, including very public infidelity.

It seems to me that we can learn that no brocha comes from wrongdoing. A person can -- in the case of Kennedy -- jump in a generation from "No Irish Need Apply" signs to the very pinnacle of power and privilege. But if the "reversal of fortune" comes through immoral or unethical behavior, no "curse" is needed. The power of midda keneged midda will operate on its own! Joseph Kennedy, Sr.'s, lust for power set his family on a course that has been difficult to reverse. May Hashem keep us from emulating not only the symptoms, but the causes, as well.

pecan

Wed, Dec 31 2008, 10:22 pm

As a matter of fact, my great-grandfather was on the boat with Kennedy's father. I know many people who say other people were on the boat. I need to ask my grandmother about it again, because I forgot the details, but I know for sure that my great-grandfather did not curse Kennedy.

Mama Bear

Wed, Dec 31 2008, 11:59 pm

Wow, Prez John had a stillborn daughter and a preemie who died? Wow, in the 60's they couldnt save 34 weekers... Sad