No, you CANNOT be an astronaut when you grow up, dear

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LeahW

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 11:30 am

Ruchel wrote:

At worst he can daven on his own, even on the moon. May be it the worst difficulty!
It's always such a kiddush hashem when a frum yid does something like that.

I happen to not agree with that. I don't mean to hijack my own thread, but why would it be a kiddush Hashem? Better that he daven with a minyan. If he can't because he is saving lives running into burning buildings that is one thing, but what is so pressing about space exploration that obviates davening with a minyan?

Ruchel

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 11:36 am

LeahW wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

At worst he can daven on his own, even on the moon. May be it the worst difficulty!
It's always such a kiddush hashem when a frum yid does something like that.

We are not exploring space just out of curiosity, taking all the risks (and losing all this money) just because we're curious. That's why it is good yidden participate. Why exactly, you need to ask the NASA (and Hashem) what's in store, but for sure it is very important to explore and study what is around.

Also davening in minyan is not a must for everyone, it's a question for a rav.

All I can say is I know of frum (even very charedi, since they're more considered on Imamother) who lived too far from shul to go on shabbes. Be it for health reasons, financial reasons, thinking it's more important to have more room in the house, etc, they made this choice for a very long time.

Astronaut would only be for a limited time. There are rabbanim who spend their vacations in tiny holes without ever a minyan, for 1, 2, 3 + months a year. If that's fine for vacation, that's fine for such a kiddush hashem.

imasinger

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 11:37 am

a) maybe he can be part of a minyan of astronauts

b) we may need other places to live besides earth someday for any variety of reasons

c) space exploration and research has led to any number of good things for Jews and others, from medical knowledge to ready-to-eat meals.

PinkFridge

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 11:40 am

We're dealing with a little kid who couldn't handle all the info. Just say that's nice, and when he gets old enough to really understand,if he still wants it, is scientifically inclined and successful, etc. find a mentor, or try to steer him to the research side, etc.

This applies to just about any profession.

HealthCoach

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 8:02 pm

I think it's better to say you can be anything you want to be if you work hard. I think there's about a 0% chance your child will want to be an astronaut when they get older.

mali

Sun, Jan 24 2010, 8:17 pm

Mitzvah Giraffe wrote:

I think it's better to say you can be anything you want to be if you work hard. I think there's about a 0% chance your child will want to be an astronaut when they get older.

that makes sense.

Isramom8

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 4:20 am

Ruchel, why ARE people exploring space? For what purpose? I'll tell you what I read. Jobs. Money. The space station exists for the space shuttle, and the space shuttle exists for the space station. To create jobs and income.

And for a country's prestige.

And psychologically, to seek Hashem out there - to prove or disprove the existence of G-d.

So where is the mitzvah?

Personally I feel that Ilan Ramon did make a Kiddush Hashem - he made Kiddush in space and thereby sanctified Hashem's Name in front of the whole world. And ate kosher food, and studied halachos pertaining to his journey, and gave importance to the Torah by carring one with him into space.

Ruchel

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 5:46 am

Of course jobs and money and prestige, but that's not "just" it. It still would not be worth it.

I'm not a big space specialist, but the discoveries we do there are tremendous, and I have a feeling in 1000 or 2000 years it will be even more.

As for seeking Hashem, it's fun what you say.

My great grandmother who was a tzadekes used to read Ladino newspapers and as all communities Saloniki was plagued by the anti religious in the 30's. There was an article saying, "now we have planes, we have seen in the sky and we saw no G-d". And she laughed at it, finding it so ridiculous they thought they could see anything (especially when not believing).

Israeli Mother

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 7:23 am

In my opinion, you should just say, "oh, how nice, Shmueli!" and leave it at that. He will have changed his mind a few days later, anyway. It is a good idea in general to say to a child "you are so smart/persevering/whatever he is that you will be able to do anything you really want to do if you work for it" so that your child understands that you have faith in him no matter what he decides to do.

I also think that you should learn to be calm in general when being a mother of boys because if you get concerned about what a 4-year-old says you are going to have a nervous breakdown when said son hits teenagehood! LOL

Inspired

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 7:59 am

I'm in the no sense in crushing the little kids dreams camp.

mama-star

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 10:00 am

my 10 yr old dd also wants to be an astronaut. so we say, go for it!
why make fights? she'll never be one anyway. LOL

HindaRochel

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 10:03 am

They will or they won't be an (astronaut, author, ballet dancer, trashman whatever) when they are older, but when they are young?
Sweetie, if that's what you want to be that is great. I think you should go for it.

louche

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 11:08 am

First of all, one need not start lecturing a 4-y/o about the harsh realities of life. By the time he's 20 he will have changed his profession 75 times. "You can be whatever you like" is exactly what one says to a 4-y/o. and one appends "and you'll be the best astronaut ever!"

There are many, many lines of work that people with little imagination think are utterly closed to frum people. In some cases, they're right. Pole dancing comes to mind. But did you know that a young Chassid attended the (tref) Culinary Institute of America? Emes! Before enrolling he told them there were 2 things he would not do: Mix meat and dairy, and taste the food he made. They accepted him anyway. Mind-boggling: a student chef who doesn't taste as he goes. Who woulda thunk?

Time was when people would have said a frum woman can't be a doctor or a nurse or a physical therapist. A halachic challenge doesn't mean a halachic impossibility. I don't see why a frum guy couldn't become an astronaut if all that learning in yeshiva doesn't ruin his eyesight. Big IF. There are dati pilots in the IDF, after all, and being a pilot is often the first step to becoming an astronaut. Astronauts are the creme de la creme of the aerospace world; I've no doubt that if a dati person made it to being an astronaut, NASA food service would find a way to make freezedried food with a hechsher for him. Or her. The government invests big bucks in these people.

chocolate moose

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 11:52 am

I don't like to fill a kids' head with nonsense. When I was a kid, growing up in the public school system, we watched a lot of films of history, and I remember in one of them a little kid in very old fashioned clothes was singing a song "Any Child Can be President". I haven't been in grade school in many years, but even then, I knew it wasn't only not true, it's impractical.

We want to raise our yiddische kinder to have spouses and families. That's normal and usual.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 11:57 am

chocolate moose wrote:

It's one thing to see "Any Child Can be President" when you're ten, and to muse about something when you're four and really can't see any big picture.

And about that any child can be pres thing: a lot of people were pumped about Obama becoming pres. because of what it would do for inner city, etc. kids. Truth is, only one person becomes pres. A LOT more people become athletes. But then again, anyone can become a lawyer and become (hopefully) positively involved in local communities and politics. So if you're afraid of filling the kid's head with shtus, have him or her focus on the steps of GETTING to this goal, e.g. working hard in science, getting good grades, whatever.

Isramom8

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 12:01 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

Right, so that's what I discussed with my child at the late-high school age, that the career in question would very likely conflict with ideal frum family life. Before that age they will argue back idealistic nonsense anyway, saying that they can make it all work out just fine and have it all.

Isramom8

Mon, Jan 25 2010, 12:07 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

Very few people become astronauts also. Maybe you can direct him to a more practical job that could theoretically be a step towards becoming an astronaut. Ilan Ramon got upset when he was called about going up into space - he told the caller, "That's not funny" - because it was a seemingly impossible dream. He said Jewish boys just didn't become astronauts. He was the ONLY Israeli astronaut. Not a very sure bet for your son. But he doesn't have to be told he "cannot" - just that he can do such and such along the way, and maybe that will lead to more, or maybe he will decide he enjoys an alternative job.