Your Rav is an Idiot

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 12:18 pm

Totally, totally, totally not cool to bash someone else's rav in a public forum, to say "There's no possible way in heck that your rav's psak is ok, what he said is muttar is totally assur, no ifs ands or buts."

Just because you pasken one way, and even if the majority of frum people pasken one way, there are different shitos, shivim panim latorah, and just because you hold one way doesn't make everything else wrong.

And telling you that your rav is WRONG, and implying that he's an IDIOT is TOTALLY TOTALLY WRONG.

People pick their rav for a reason. I picked my rav because of his yiras shamayim and immense knowledge of Torah, inside and out. When he gives me a psak, I follow it, and you can shut your trap if you think he's wrong. You listen to your rav, I'll listen to my rav.

And if, come 120, I find out my rav was wrong, I'll be able to say that I was following the halacha of aseh licha rav, and lo sasuru min hadavar asher yagidu licha yamin usmol.

Keep your opinions about my rav to yourself, and whatever it is, don't blast me publicly for doing the mitzva of following my rav.

Imhappy!

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 12:59 pm

I hear you.
bashing s/o rav is assur.
seems like your speaking from a place of pain and raw emotion.
if your rav is ortho and competent then go ahead ignore the worlds opinion
chag kashur v'sameach.

btw - it might help not to discuss certain topics with certain ppl.

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 1:06 pm

Imhappy! wrote:

I hear you.
bashing s/o rav is assur.
seems like your speaking from a place of pain and raw emotion.
if your rav is ortho and competent then go ahead ignore the worlds opinion
chag kashur v'sameach.

Yes, pain and raw emotion. When you say "That is absolutely assur, Your rav has no clue what he's talking about," you're insinuating that I'm an idiot and some lowlife for listening to my rav and doing what he says.

Quote:

btw - it might help not to discuss certain topics with certain ppl.

I don't parade around piskei halachos that I get. It's usually I mention something random, and someone asks me for more specifics, I give the specifics, and I get yelled at "Assur, assur, assur!" And when I say "Maybe according to your shita, but my rav is learned and I trust him" I get a reply like "Well, your rav doesn't sound competent. There's not a single rav from any side of the spectrum that says that is muttar." Gross exaggeration, and how is that supposed to make me feel?

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 1:07 pm

I have to say that I am sooo curious what the original conversation was about. Either way, it's definitely a rue thing to say to another person, but I can see how one may think they're not doing anything wrong. I'm not saying that this is may personal view, but I know it's hard for many people to accept that there is a possibility for halacha to be defined differently than the way that they've had it defined for themselves.

When you think about it, it is somewhat of a slippery slope. Think about other forms of Judaism - conservadox, conservative, reform etc... Technically they all have their rabbinical authorities guide them in the "ways of the Torah" and yet we do not hold that they are following halacha correctly, and that these "rabbanim" are wrong. Where does that point of view end? It's definitely a grey issue.

I'm not trying to defend this person's actions, because even if a rav's p'sak IS wrong, I can't think of a situation where it would be correct to say it in the way that you described.

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 1:09 pm

amother wrote:

If you don't write this anon, I'll probably pm you. I just don't want to post it here on the thread.

bubby

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:05 pm

If you are upset about something on FB, why drag it here? G-d knows we have enough arguments that start on here! Rolling Eyes

If I'm missing summat, feel free to be clearer.

But to comment: I agree, OP. As someone (Chabad) who sees A LOT of anti-Chabad rhetoric on here, ITA with your hurt & furious feelings.

So there, bashers! Bring it on

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:07 pm

bubby wrote:

If you are upset about something on FB, why drag it here? G-d knows we have enough arguments that start on here! Rolling Eyes

I'm not allowed to vent?
And I've seen similar happening on imamother, even if that wasn't what prompted this post.

tsiggelle

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:10 pm

amother wrote:

Imhappy! wrote:

I hear you.
bashing s/o rav is assur.
seems like your speaking from a place of pain and raw emotion.
if your rav is ortho and competent then go ahead ignore the worlds opinion
chag kashur v'sameach.

Quote:

btw - it might help not to discuss certain topics with certain ppl.

if they ask you for specifics, you can say that 'the psak I got is specifically for me according to my details. you would have to ask the shaila to your if its for yourself anyway,'. or something to that effect.

repeat that as many times as you need, each time a little slower and clearer, in case they are hard-of-hearing.

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:13 pm

amother wrote:

I'm not allowed to vent?
And I've seen similar happening on imamother, even if that wasn't what prompted this post.

look, you've got to be more specific. if you post a picture of yourself enjoying a pulled pork sandwich and then claim your rav said it was ok, you've got to expect some push back.

I don't understand people who think they can post on a public forum that their rav said XYZ and then expect everyone who reads it to just nod quietly and not question who your rav is, if he misunderstood your question or if you mistunderstood his ruling, etc.

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:18 pm

amother wrote:

I'm not allowed to vent?
And I've seen similar happening on imamother, even if that wasn't what prompted this post.

I'm specifically not being specific, but its no where near the example of pork. Maybe closer to saying "I bought this hechsher" and having someone saying "That's absolutely treif" when there definitely is room to be meikil, if you know all the information surrounding it, and that "less good hechsher" is quite possibly more strict than other "stricter" hechsherim.

bubby

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:22 pm

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

If you are upset about something on FB, why drag it here? G-d knows we have enough arguments that start on here! Rolling Eyes

I'm not allowed to vent?
And I've seen similar happening on imamother, even if that wasn't what prompted this post.

Hon, I'M AGREEING WITH YOU!!! I just don't know what WE can do if this is a FB issue.

amother

Mon, Apr 11 2011, 5:28 pm

bubby wrote:

amother wrote:

bubby wrote:

If you are upset about something on FB, why drag it here? G-d knows we have enough arguments that start on here! Rolling Eyes

I'm not allowed to vent?
And I've seen similar happening on imamother, even if that wasn't what prompted this post.

Hon, I'M AGREEING WITH YOU!!! I just don't know what WE can do if this is a FB issue.

I wasn't sure if you were complaining that I was venting. I davka didnt want to vent on facebook because I wanted to write anon.
The only thing to do is to just empathize/commiserate, and I guess try to be aware of how you (not you, bubby, but just someone) may be hurting someone by making remarks like that.