Bris-Planning and issues-HELP!!

amother

Mon, May 16 2011, 5:14 pm

I need help and am relying on all of you sisters out there..
Heres the story. My daughter is expecting and we know its a boy. so, heres the thing. First, since she is coming to us after the birth, we offered to pay for the bris, so if my mechutan wants his own Mohel, do we have to agree to that(it will be more expensive b/c the mohel has to come to Monsey.) Is is terrible to ask my mechutan to pay for that if that is what he wants? Also, is it a given that we pay for everything re: the sholom zochor, because we have the baby over here? (We are already covering it, I just wanted to know.)
Anyone have this story and can advise???
Secondly, can someone give me info on the best place to get platters, etc, for the bris(I am new to Monsey and unfamiliar with the stores, etc, and the prices)? Also, info on everything else involved (I.e., bris outfit, etc.) This is the first bris we are making (for my boys, four of them, kh, my parents/inlaws did it) so I know nothing about what is 'done' or even what I need to do...PLEASE HELP!!!

mummiedearest

Mon, May 16 2011, 7:44 pm

firstly, bshaah tovah.

second, in terms of the mohel-- you can't really book them in advance. you don't know exactly when the baby will be born, whether he'll be able to have the bris on time, etc. so it often boils down to who can come and be mohel. if your mechutanim are adamant about the mohel, ask them to either pay in full or pay the difference. that should be ok. explain the expense, if necessary.

as for who covers what-- we went to my parents when my son was born. I don't recall who paid for the shalom zachor. I suspect my parents paid for at least part of it. that was between my husband and my father. however, we paid for the bris in full, and for the pidyon haben. I made all the arrangements for the pidyon haben myself. as far as I'm concerned, it's lovely that you're offering to pay for anything, it's not the grandparents' obligation.

now, as for bris outfit. my mother has her father's bris gown, and wanted me to use it. I said no thanks. it's crazy long and delicate, I didn't feel comfortable using it. I just put my son in a cute blue cotton stretchie. that's what I was comfortable with. I know people get bris outfits, but it's not absolutely necessary. ask your daughter what her preference is.

platters-- any bagel store should be able to supply them. call a few, compare rates, and ask how far in advance they need to be notified of when the bris will be. it's really nothing difficult. just get some bagels, some platters, some basic salads. it's nice to put out lunch bags so people can pack leftovers to take to work (otherwise you're stuck with tons of leftovers). if you want dessert, don't go crazy. an assortment of cookies works well. many people can't stick around for a serious dessert course.

what else do you need? a pillow to carry baby on (frilly pillowcase totally unnecessary, but some people like it), a set list for the kibudim, a mohel, a minyan, a baby boy, a fully stocked diaper bag (mohel usually tells what to include. make sure to find out what kind of gauze/cream, etc, you need. different mohels ask for different products) a check for the mohel, a stroller for the baby. tissues for mommy. parents should have decided on the name by then Smile

your sil should have a speech prepared. your husband may want to speak as well.

a bris really doesn't take too much as far as planning. I think the earlier the plan it the more work you'll have.

good luck!

BusyBeeMommy

Mon, May 16 2011, 8:02 pm

I don't see why your mechutanim can't help out with the simcha expenses. It's very generous of you to foot the entire bill. If your mechutan wants a specific mohel, you should ask him to pay for it. The shalom zachor shouldn't cost a fortune, some candy and cookies, and you can ask the mechutanim to help out with that as well. It really depends on who the guests in the simcha will be also. If your mechutanim plan on inviting a lot of people, they should definitely help cover the expenses. If the majority of guests will be from your side then it's acceptable that you pay for the majority of the simcha.

My DS wore a bris outfit to his bris, which was a beautiful white knit outfit. I washed it right after and it goes around the family to my nephews. But I agree that you should ask your daughter as to her preference. My DS also wore a white yarmulka that we got in a judaica store, I don't know if that's your minhag or not.

There are gemachs that lend out bris pillow cases, which is what we borrowed. I don't live in Monsey but I have no doubt that there are gemachs there as well.

I assume that most bagel stores cater the bris. We used the most standard menu, nothing hot, just platters of fish, spreads, bagels, danishes, coffee and orange juice. They took care of everything from A-Z, including lunch bags, tablecloths, paper goods, set-up and clean-up. I would advise doing that rather than getting everything yourself as you have little time to plan the simcha because of its nature, and it is an overwhelming time, what with caring for the baby and new mother. My parents and in-laws split the cost as the guest list was half and half.

I can imagine that there will be a lot of posters here being critical of young couples that expect their parents to pay for everything but I didn't feel bad that we didn't pay for the simcha, because the guests were mostly friends of my parents and in-laws. It felt more like their simcha than ours. We had like 2 or 3 friends each but not more than that. In the future, though, if we make a bris where we live, we plan on paying for it. Of course we'll take anything that my parents or in-laws offer.

mummiedearest

Mon, May 16 2011, 9:41 pm

cookie1 wrote:

Thanks, BBM and MD Very Happy

.the reason I am hesitant to ask the mechutanim is that when it comes to $$$ they are very very tight fisted, yet they invite all the members of their extremely large family to all simchas on all the inlaws cheshbon! Other than moneywise they are OK but its like talking to a wall, and for sholoms sake, we give in..but this time, its kind of our own simcha so thats why we were a bit put off by the mohel thing, and wondered how to handle it, what is right or wrong...

I'm heavily into being blunt about things.

"gittie, I know you want r' x as mohel. however, he will cost $300 more than R' y. so if you want him, you pay for him to come. I can't afford it."

I wouldn't worry as much about how many invites there will be. as I said, you really can't invite anyone. you just notify them of the details so they can try to show up. I've never been to a bris with a large crowd, but maybe that's because my family doesn't know as many people. either way, if you need to, you can tell the mechutanim, "I'm planning to cater for fifty people. if you want more, here's the number for the bagel place. order whatever extra you need." that way they can have as many friends what they want, and they can pay for the extra food involved. much easier to do this with a bris than a wedding.

Marion

Tue, May 17 2011, 12:47 am

Yeah, why are the grandparents choosing the mohel? For us we use a pretty eyelet lace pillowcase that my MIL has, but there's no fancy "bris outfit". I've had babies in 3 different clothing seasons...easiest thing for me (and, apparently the mohel) is a onesie that he can roll up out of the way...he rolls other top layers with it and everything stays clean.

DS#1 was born Friday afternoon...we made the shalom zachar in the hospital me, DH, baby, MIL, & BIL who walked over. DS#2 was born Shabbat night; shalom zachar was at the inlaws' because it was a Shabbat bris so that's where we were. (I don't go ANYWHERE after I have a baby, except home.) DS#3 was born Monday morning; we made the shalom zachar at our home. I baked and froze everything before he was born, just in case, because I did NOT know it would be a boy...but I figured I'd need food for either a shalom zachar or a kiddush.

All britot were made by the same mohel, in the same shul. My IL's paid for the first two; my MIL footed the food bill for the third and we paid the mohel.

Before you think my parents are cheap, they live overseas and have put money into my foreign account to help with the expenses each time...my ILs always declined the contribution.

It's really nice of you to offer to do this for your kids...just don't forget it's really THEIR simcha, and their opinions are important and should be requested.

mommyhood

Tue, May 17 2011, 9:38 am

My parents hosted and planned the shalom zachor but we made everything ourselves plus neighbors and friends brought things. Unless you're planning on buying lots of bakery things the shalom zachor should be pretty inexpensive. Also depending on when the baby's born you might not even have one so it's hard to plan that in advance.
For the bris seudah my parents would have been ok paying for the whole thing that's what they were expecting but my in laws offerred to pay for half. We paid for the mohel, my husband felt it was his chiyuv and we should pay for it. We would not have had a problem paying for and planning the seudah but we were definitely happy that we didn't have to. As others said almost all of the people at my sons bris were my parents and in laws friends and they would have felt bad making me pay for that.
I got an outfit and pillows from the bris gemach. To me it's an important part of the bris I love the look of the baby in the pretty white knit outfit on the fancy pillow. You can look in the monsey phone book I'm sure there's more than one bris gemach. My mohel gave us specific instructions of what to buy for the bris beforehand and I'm sure any good mohel will do the same.

amother

Tue, May 17 2011, 9:41 am

You guys are right about it being 'their simcha'.(my kids) I am trying to explain this to DH but he feels that if we are paying 4 it, why isnt it 'our simcha'? I sort of agree..
also, I am the blunt one in the house, but with these Mechutanim, it doesnt work, I tried it many times from chasunah, sheva Brochos, etc..they get offended and they react badly each time, and we end up giving in..they cry that they have no $$, that they made many chasunahs, brisses, etc, (true, they are much older than us and have a bigger family) and they 'never' had to do a, b, or c, etc..(whatever I want them to do)I dont know if its worth ruining the relationship. I tried telling them at the wedding about this type of thing, I.e., we are willing to pay x for something and if you want y, you pay...and it ended up as such an explosion that for the kids sake I never did it again (and BTW, the kids do not know about ANY of this stuff, I dont want to cause any sholom bayis issues or that my daughter should dislike her MIL) Is this IL behavior normal?
Anyway, I wil look into caterers, bagel stores..practically speaking, if there is anyone from MOnsey out there, a little help please with cost, and how many ppldo you usually prep for at these things, etc? We plan to keep it simple, in a shul, no hall or seating (we cannot afford that sort of thing.) Please be specific as possible...thanks! Smile

life'sgreat

Tue, May 17 2011, 9:43 am

There's a gemach in Monsey for bris outfits, as well as the bris pillow etc... Check the community connections classifieds.

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

Asking them to pay for a more expensive mohel is one thing. But I don't think it's fair to request that they pay for the other stuff. It isn't a given that grandparents foot these bills and while it's generous of OP to do so, I don't think it can be expected that other grandparents do the same. She can mention it, but not demand/ask for it, or put them on the spot.

life'sgreat

Tue, May 17 2011, 9:47 am

amother wrote:

I don't agree that because you are paying, you get to choose the mohel. As long as financially the cost is the same, not more, I think it's only fair to allow the parents to choose a mohel. Getting these gifts when it comes with a price tag is often not worth it.

Regarding the mohel issue - I think you simply need to state it as a fact - we are taking X mohel and if you want Y, the difference in price will be X and we are not covering that. If you want that mohel, just let me know that you called him and are paying the difference by X date. Otherwise we'll have this mohel we planned on. End of story.

mummiedearest

Tue, May 17 2011, 9:50 am

amother wrote:

in terms of the seuda, your dh is right. your choice. however, the mohel is not just part of the simcha. he is conducting surgery here. I know plenty of horror stories in which the parents didn't check out the mohel and the bris caused lots of complications. not fun. so it's up to your kids to do the research on this. they are the parents, they choose the surgeon. sometimes families like to have "their" mohel who has done all the brisses for the past 50 years. this can cause lots of fights if the new parents feel the mohel is too old to have steady hands. let them be the only people deciding on this, you don't want any resentment later. I would NEVER let my parents choose the mohel for my son's bris. it is absolutely the parents' responsibility.

and about the IL behavior... no, it's not normal. they can't blame their large family with lots of weddings and brisses on you. if you can't afford things, you shouldn't be bullied into paying for them. tell them you will be catering for x amount of people. no further discussion.

Tamiri

Tue, May 17 2011, 10:21 am

OP it's very nice that you are having your daughter over after she has the baby. I've made 5 britot so I have a tiny bit of experience. I think you are stressing too much. As others have said, the baby decides when to make his appearance, and the details of the brit won't become clear for a few days until you are sure everything is fine (he's not jaundiced etc.). So planning and planning may just cause heartache later on.
I think that the first item to decide on is [u]how much you want to spend on this, soup to nuts[/u]. I mean birth to pidyon. Or birth to brit. Whatever. Take that amount and that's it. No need to get yourself in a financial bind over a simcha that, well... isn't even yours, to be blunt. Whatever you give, is generous. Besides all the party aspects, your daughter will need diapers, wipes, maybe some clothes, maybe a this or a tha (stroller, car seat, crib)t: have you considered that in what you are able to afford towards this baby which isn't yours, or are you only thinking about the party?
The Shalom Zachar can be made for a very reasonable amount. Assuming the baby will be arriving shortly, this time of year the SZ will start late Friday night. People probably won't be spending hours in your house munching on goodies. What you "need": drinks and cheap disposable cups. Maybe some shnapps to keep the men happy. Arbes (cooked chickpeas) which are traditional, and thankfully quite cheap and easy to prepare (you can make them ahead and freeze). A few cakes which I assume people who hear about the SZ will bring you along cheap disposable cake plates and forks and napkins. Maybe a few candy dishes. A platter or two of fruit stuck with toothpicks. People are coming for a SZ, not to fress. They will be after a good Shabbat meal. And remember: you IYH will have a kimpturin and newborn in your house - you don't want to be spending too much time worrying about the SZ.
This should not cost too much, and I don't think (unless things are VERY tight for you) it should be taken into account in the grand scheme of things.
After this, please share your budget with your daughter. For example, you can say: I want to allot $700 towards this simcha. How would you like to spend it? If they want to spend $500 on a mohel, they have $200 left to play with and can make a brit serving hamotzi, crackers and cream cheese. That sort of thing. Everything is out in the open, and there are no surprises.
To lower costs for a morning brit, you can make tuna salad, egg salad and cream cheese by yourself. Buy bagels, oj, milk, coffee, tea and danishes. Cut up veggies. And there you have an inexpensive brit. Maybe some friends can make warm sweet noodle kugel or something as an extra. If you make it early in the am, you will have people rushing to get to work (uh.. I hope your friends work) and no one will stick around for too long. If you make it at home instead of at shul, you won't be picking up strays - it will be who you invite and you can limit the guests.
For the brit, you can get as cheap or as expensive an outfit as you wish. The bottom line is, well... the bottom has to come off. It may get wine/blood/excrement on it. So you decide what you want to buy. For one of our britot, a friend of mine bought a frilly white infant set for about a dollar at Big Lots. It was fine.
Get a pillow cover from a Gemach or a friend.
Set up a kiseh shel Eliyahu for the sandek to sit upon. Oh, a sandek should be chosen in advance and kvatters if you want them (traditional).
The mohel will let you know everything else he will need for the brit and afterwards. Whether it's a specific gauze, diaper etc. - they know their stuff.
Decide who will get kibbudim, like for the benching.

BusyBeeMommy

Tue, May 17 2011, 1:24 pm

life'sgreat wrote:

There's a gemach in Monsey for bris outfits, as well as the bris pillow etc... Check the community connections classifieds.

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

I think that if they plan on having many guests, it's only fair they help out with the $. If the mom of the girl is paying for everything, then it's inappropriate for them to inform more than a handful of friends about it.

OP, you can tell your mechutanim that you plan on about X amount of attendees. Ask them if that number is accurate. If they tell you that they plan on having 20 more of their friends and family come you can kindly inform them that while you wish you can afford so many people, it's not in your budget. If they cry that they had to pay for so many other simchas, etc, you can tell them it's not relevant to this simcha at hand. If they want to host people they should foot the bill. If they don't have the $, they should not inform others to attend. It's really greedy to assume someone else will pay for their fun.

Also, keep in mind that if your DD gives birth on shabbos or a week before shavuous, you will have to make a seudah on shabbos or yom tov. I never planned one of those but I'm sure the logistics are different.

Good luck and may this be a time of pure happiness for you!

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 8:58 am

Thanks everyone for the gr8 advice. as far as the SZ, we are planning just to make it in the house, soe shnapps, a few cakes/cookies, arbes, Potato chips, etc. that is not really a concern, but thanks for the input. I have checked out baby outfits (bris) and they want 50-70$a pop-so to the gemach I go! A pillow I have. What does 'prepare a kisay shel Eliyahu' mean? Doesnt the shul do that?
The Kibudim we are laeving to the kids. I will look into the caterer locally, and based on the wise advice I got here, I will leave the Mohel, details, etc, to my kids to pick.
as far as the ppl expected,Iwill not be asking the IL. I will speak locally to my caterers, and I figure 150 ppl sounds right to prep for..I know its expensive but I assume I will not have time to prep the salads alone since my DD will be here from the moment she is out of the hospital. If its a weekday bris, it will be even fewer ppl. if its more to the summer, also becuase ppl will be away from end of June..that part I obviously cannot plan,only Hashem knows. I will not ask anyone to the shabbos but my IL alone, no sibs, becuase then it becomes another Shaboos SB and I coannot even tell youthat saga..they had 3 times as many ppl as I did, and I paid..I will say that I am busy with DD and baby and cannot host Anyone but my IL> Any ideas on how to do this effectively but crystal clear? My Mechataniste gets very easliy offended if ALL her kids and their kids are not included... Confused