WDYD when another child is cruel to your child??

amother

Sat, Jul 21 2012, 11:26 pm

To make a long story short our 11 year old is not the best at sports. he is on the shorter side, does his best , but somehow, he never manages to ith the ball, catch it, run as quick as he should etc. he is very self conscious as he is always picked last for a team and kids groan and complain when he is "up".

this has been going on most of the summer and we tell him to just keep on trying....

Fast forward to this shabbos, he finally got the guts to join a game and after 15 minutes, he came running home crying hysterically.

A boy called him a stupid ________(his nationality), and said that he always gets out and doesnt know how to play.

I thought of speaking to the parents, but I was told its a lost cause because their kids are always right.

DS cried for an hour about he is no good at sports, he is never playing again, and a million other things.

My heart is broken.

advice please...

gila-rina

Sat, Jul 21 2012, 11:33 pm

Sign him up for some sport related activity - karate, swimming etc., It will both boost his self-esteem and help with hand-eye coordination. Good luck!

shirachadasha

Sat, Jul 21 2012, 11:36 pm

I don't have any bright solutions. Hugs to you and may DS find his way to shine soon.

Dandelion1

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 12:03 am

gila-rina wrote:

Sign him up for some sport related activity - karate, swimming etc., It will both boost his self-esteem and help with hand-eye coordination. Good luck!

ita, not all sports are team sports... perhaps his confidence in this regard can be built through a sport that is more individually based

Frenchfry

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 12:41 am

So sorry you had rto go through this. I find that when I deal with the "kid is always right" types, I skip the parents and get into the kids face. (Sending DH is even more effective). If you're assertive enough, you should be able to get through to him that what he said was obnoxious, and hopefully avoid its happening again. I don't think there's anything wrong with scaring an obnoxious kid that age. You can threaten to speak to his Rebbe about his behaviour if all else fails.

I also have a DS who isn't great at sports. We just encourage him in other areas where he excells, but no child should go through that kind of taunting for any reason.

ewa-jo

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 12:43 am

Sign him up for something he is good at. Find an activity that he enjoys and is good at, probably not a team sport.

Does he actually enjoy sports or is he going along with things?

IMO, better to let kids do the things they like and are good at then to push them into something because it's what the other kids do... or because you think it's good for him to be in it.

shanie5

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 2:17 am

The taunting is wrong.Some parents will talk to their child about it and try to correct their behavior, others wont.

My son was hired by parents to teach a few kids how to play sports better. Is this an option for you?

Ruchel

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 7:53 am

I would go to the mean kid, with my kid, and let the bully hear it all.

Culturedpearls

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 10:17 am

Speak to the kid. I've done this. Just skipped the parents, works great with bullies upto a certain age.
Build your son up in other areas, everyone is good at something.

amother

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 11:01 am

Frenchfry wrote:

So sorry you had rto go through this. I find that when I deal with the "kid is always right" types, I skip the parents and get into the kids face.

New amother here.

That didn't work for me when my son was bullied because the parents ALWAYS got involved and threatened to call the police on me if I EVER tried to talk to their son.

These are frum people, but you would never know it. Eventually, my son switched schools. This kid is so spoiled and he's never been punished. In about six years, the bully will be entering shidduchim. Don't ask me for a reference.

Barbara

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 12:24 pm

OP, so sorry for your son's bad experience. But IMHO, you're getting terrible advice here, advice that is going to hurt your son, your other kids, and your own reputation in the long run.

First things first. I strongly recommend the book Real Boys to help you, as a woman, have a deeper understanding of the way boys talk and interact with one another. I'm trying to link to an excerpt -- about three pages in.

http://books.google.com/books?.....false

I AM NOT MINIMIZING YOUR SON'S REACTION OR THE FACT THAT HE WAS HURT. He was. He is entitled to feel the way he feels, and he should be respected for that. And other boys should learn to accept him as he is, and not to say things that will upset him. But you do need to go into any discussion with a recognition that while the other boy was certainly harsh and perhaps over the top, many or perhaps even most boys would have shrugged the comment off as part of the repartee of tween boys. Under those circumstance, calling the sports taunt (as opposed to the ethnic one) "cruel" may be considered over the top and not get the reaction you want. (As an aside, it reminds me of an incident that taught me something about boys. My son was accused of and disciplined for "stealing" another boy's drink. The kid left it on a table, and my son took a sip; another boy finished it, but my son would not say who. I was livid and disciplined him harshly in addition to the school's actions. Two days later, DS left a bottle of Powerade on the bench at a softball game. I watched in shock (and disgust) as just about every boy on the team picked it up and drank from it. It didn't make my son's actions right, because the other boy was upset by what he did. But it did make me understand what he had done, in the context of the way his peers interact with one another.)

Next yes, you need to speak to the parents, not the child. No parent should ever be disciplining someone else's child, except under the most extreme circumstances. How would you feel if a parent came up to your son and said the following. "I need to speak to you about your behavior yesterday. My son takes the game very seriously. When you joined the game, you agreed to play. His team lost because you left. He was very upset. Your behavior was childish and cruel. If you can't be bothered to complete the game, don't play." You'd be furious, and rightly so. You shouldn't be that parent, either. PARTICULARLY when you state that you've never tried to speak with them before, and are only relying upon the opinions of others as to their probable reaction.

Finally, if your son wants to play baseball, don't steer him away from it. Encourage him to practice his skills by throwing a ball against a wall and catching it, or having a friend (or you) throw grounders and pop-ups to him. Help him learn to "bully-proof" himself by trying to outwardly ignore the comments, or to listen to the riposts amongst the other kids, and see if he can join in. I'd hate to see him give up something he enjoys (if he does) over this. And here I speak as the mother of a child who went from being teased about his awkwardness in a particular sport to having a shelf full of trophies for being on highly selective championship teams in that sport. Conversely, if he doesn't enjoy it, buy the kid a basketball, football, soccer ball or tennis racket; help him find a sport he does enjoy. Its the old playground adage -- bring the ball, and the kids will flock to you.

amother

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 5:44 pm

shanie5 wrote:

Yes, I was looking for such an option . Its a great idea!

octopus

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 5:54 pm

Barbara wrote:

I don't care if you have a book to back you up. This is blame the victim mentality. and the fact is, this child DID use an ethnic insult. so it changes things here big time.

shanie5

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 10:56 pm

amother wrote:

shanie5 wrote:

Yes, I was looking for such an option . Its a great idea!

If you live in lakewood, I can give you his number. I think he still does it. PM me if its applicable.

Barbara

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 11:52 pm

octopus wrote:

Barbara wrote:

I don't care if you have a book to back you up. This is blame the victim mentality. and the fact is, this child DID use an ethnic insult. so it changes things here big time.

Its not blame the victim. As I said, the child felt the way the child felt, and we all need to accept that.

Quote:

I AM NOT MINIMIZING YOUR SON'S REACTION OR THE FACT THAT HE WAS HURT. He was. He is entitled to feel the way he feels, and he should be respected for that. And other boys should learn to accept him as he is, and not to say things that will upset him.

There you go, since you seem to need to read that again.

But we also need to look at things from the POV of the other child in fashioning a response. Was the child deliberately cruel? I don't know that he was if he was simply engaging in the normal banter of boys that age. Accusing a child of being cruel and bullying under those circumstances isn't going to get the response that the OP wants. And its the type of pathologizing of male behavior that is causing our sons to do worse in school, in higher education, and in the world. There's a world of difference between "your child is cruel" and "I think we should try to keep the on-field banter more positive and encouraging."

amother

Sun, Jul 22 2012, 11:59 pm

Funny, something similar happened to me this shabbos. My son is a baby, only 16 months old, and two 4-year-olds were following him around while we were outside, pinching and hitting him for absolutely no reason. Every time it happened I picked up my son and yelled at the kids, while the mothers watched and said nothing. After shabbos I was venting to my mom, who is an experienced social worker. She said next time it happens I should tell the mothers, "I can't discipline your son, please do it for me."
I feel for you OP, I'm still seething!

abound

Mon, Jul 23 2012, 1:35 am

If you speak to the "bully" or his parents you will be commiting social suicide (or homicide) to your child.
Bolster your childs confidence etc. Figure out why he is being bullied. And if this is a one off situation and he does not get bullied all the time then leave them be.

AztecQueen2000

Mon, Jul 23 2012, 10:23 am

It's astonishing how much behavior is considered normal in children, yet would not be tolerated if it came from an adult. Throwing around ethnic slurs could be considered, in some contexts, a hate crime.
Yes, these are kids, and they don't always know what's appropriate. But if we don't speak up for our children, then what will happen? Will the boy learn that his feelings don't matter? Will he sink into depression, thinking that even his own parents don't really care about him since he isn't a star athlete? Will he get so mad that he retaliates with violence? Children do not some up with good solutions to bullies on their own. If you see it happening, confront the kid on the spot. I've done this a few times with my own children when they were being bullied at the park.
However, since we're only getting one side of the story, I'd keep a close eye on my son. Sometimes having a parent as an eyewitness cuts down on the bullying. However, if the kid doesn't care, get in his face and MAKE him care. Also, try to find a new peer group for your son that is more tolerant.
Bottom line, kids won't learn that there is anything wrong with their behavior without being taught.

DrMom

Mon, Jul 23 2012, 10:57 am

Barbara wrote:

There's a world of difference between "your child is cruel" and "I think we should try to keep the on-field banter more positive and encouraging."

I agree with Barbara on this. But I do differ in opinion about the correct way to handle it.

When I saw the thread title, I was hesitant to click on it because I knew I would find it disturbing to read about children being cruel to one another. But (not that I am disappointed; I am relieved) the OP isn't describing a situation I would characterize as "cruel."

I would say it's insensitive, rude, and sorely deficient in derech eretz.

Is there some sort of adult supervising this game? A teacher? Coach? Organizer? An older child who is sort of in charge?

If this supervising person does not tolerate taunting, it will stop. If he tolerates it, he is condoning it and it will continue.

Perhaps you could speak to him and remind him that just because we are playing baseball is no reason to forget that we are Jews and are still expected to behave with respect to our fellow human beings.

Perhaps you could encourage him to work on the teamwork aspect of team sports and find ways for other players to help those on their team who need extra help, rather than taunting them and discouraging them from playing. A lesson in achdut, if you will.

33055

Mon, Jul 23 2012, 11:15 am

abound wrote:

I think it depends on how talking to the parents is handled. I have sent my husband to talk to the fathers. It works. My son is popular and so is my husband.

I agree that it is not for me to discipline someone else's child.