Should we stick with this punishment?

amother

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 6:24 pm

So, my 16-year old did something obnoxious and irresponsible earlier in the week. She was in a public place with one of her younger siblings, and ignored him crying for something, even though she knew exactly what he wanted, for over an hour. She just refused to get it for him. As a result, his crying ended up bothering a lot of people.
This weekend, I was supposed to take her into New York for an afternoon of shopping and lunch. It is a 2 times a year tradition we have. My husband has meetings in the city. I go with my daughter for a fun day. (She is the oldest, and it is a big special treat for her.) We both really look forward to it twice a year! My husband decided that as a punishment for what she did that she couldn't go into New York this weekend. Instead, he said I should take one of my younger daughters, who has been helping a lot around the house recently.
What do you think? Is this a fair punishment? Should we break a nice tradition? I am not sure what to do.

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 6:35 pm

It's harsh. But I can see the point.

You might compromise and take both.

That would dilute the Queen of the Day role that your oldest enjoyed when only she went, and would reward the other's good behavior, and would teach the oldest her siblings are important people.

I am not sure about this, just a thought.

I agree something is in order, not just forgetting about it.

=====================================

Take her aside.

Say, someday you will be a woman and the little brother you ignored will be a man.

It is entirely possible he could be useful to you then, as an ally or a friend, or, if he sees you as a Mean Sister, not.

Some day he will be taller than you and most probably make more money than you. Think about it.

Say, there is a phrase in this world: what goes around, comes around. You get back what you put out. Think about it.

Then snarl maternally and walk away.

She really needs to learn this and you will be doing her a huge favor.

greenfire

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 6:39 pm

she's not the parent & shouldn't have to be responsible to that point

are you saying that if you scream & cry for something - someone should get it for you ?

it's hard to tell based on what I'm reading thus far ...

it's nice to treat the other daughters as special - every now & again

but yeah once you break that 'tradition' - what will the ramifications be ... if she truly deserves a punishment is this one is maybe a little too harsh

amother

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 6:47 pm

OP here: I probably should have said what he wanted! He wanted his snack from his backpack, which was on a bench right near my daughter. He couldn't get the backpack open (the zipper was stuck). DD knew all this and ignored him, and didn't even try to open it. She admits that she completely ignored him, and even knew at the time that it was totally wrong. She knew that if she got the lunch, he would have been totally quiet, but she decided to ignore it for an hour.

I really appreciate the responses! Thank you! I am very torn!

greenfire

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 6:56 pm

did she say why she ignored him ? was she resentful of having to care for him in said public place ?

I wonder if maybe the punishment - albeit harsh - might be apropos after all

again not knowing what I would do ... but once you said she is punished you can't go back on that either ... and she gets to be in your company all day as a special treat - when she couldn't handle the company of little brother who was in need

hm ~ maybe it's time to start taking turns going out with the other kids

Barbara

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 6:57 pm

amother wrote:

Was it her responsibility to babysit for her brother during this time? Was there no other person over the age of 10 available to help him?

Is he under the age of 5? Is he developmentally challenged?

Was it lunch or a snack?

Frankly, I think that the punishment is draconian for the crime. In fact, it sounds like she needs some alone time with mom. Take away a different privilege.

amother

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 7:06 pm

Barbara wrote:

amother wrote:

OP here: She and her 15 year old sister were supposed to be watching him. (The NY trip is just for the 16 year old, not the 15 year old. The 15 yo won't be going to NY, my husband is thinking I should bring the 13 yo dd who wasn't involved in all of this, and has been extremely helpful lately with other things)

He is 4 1/2. No he is not developmentally challenged at all. He is a very bright boy.

It was his snack, which was leftover from his lunch earlier. (Cookies, and the other half of his sandwich from earlier in the day).

She definitely needs some alone time with me, which is why I am so torn! She and I both love this trip. I, think, though, this was "the icing on the cake" for my husband to punish her this way since she had done a few other things recently that he was not too happy with.

boysmom79

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 7:24 pm

Def not an appropriate punishment- I wouldn't take away that trip for anything the worse she behaves the more she needs it - and you need to have that positive time w her! Why not a fitting consequence- she will 'owe' you some extra babysitting time, at a time when she normally doesn't- shabbos afternoon maybe?

Emotional

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 7:53 pm

Don't take away her outing.
I think the most appropriate punishment would be for HER to take HIM out for a day of sisterly love & attention (on a separate day), to make up for ignoring him. It's more "middah kneged middah", and isn't likely to inspire the same resentment &bitterness as taking away her outing with you.

the world's best mom

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 9:05 pm

Emotional wrote:

I LOVE this idea!

Taking away her outing is a horrible idea if she has been acting out lately. When a child deserves a hug the least, that's when she needs it the most. She needs her time with you right now.

I do think all of the children should have outings alone with you or your dh. They all need it.

Instead of punishing, make her right her wrong by taking her little brother out and being nice to him. She should pay for expenses involved in their outing.

ElTam

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 9:08 pm

I would not take a young lady who had willfully caused pain to her sibling and ignored his cries for an hour for a special trip. Tradition, no tradition. It's our tradition to show care and concern for other who are hurting. She made a conscious decision, and kept making that decision for a full hour, knowing it was wrong the whole time. That's a serious failing that deserves a serious consequence.

That being said, I would not take another child on the oldest's outing. That's beneath you.

If the oldest child needs the one on one time, give it to her a different way. Of course if she needs something in the way of clothes, get it for her where you live, but not with a special fancy trip and lunch.

That's my .02.

groisamomma

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 10:07 pm

I'll be the lone dissenter here. If as you wrote she is being obnoxious lately with other things and your husband punished her I wouldn't have him rescind it. Let him go to NY alone and when this dies down you can take her out for lunch and shopping near you if you feel she needs alone time with you.

As for the posters that said punishing her will create a monster...since when do parents have to be scared of their kids? This is why some kids run amok--never mind run the whole house and have their parents wrapped around their little finger!

All this is of course considering your dh is a reasonable person and his judgement is reliable.

Just realized EITam wrote the same thing. I agree with her obviously.

greenfire

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 10:18 pm

we'll never really see the full picture so nothing is set in stone - I'm just helping op think aloud ...

so 4 1/2 year old is screaming & crying & now 15 year old is being punished for not dealing with him ... why is a 15 year old playing mother ?

should she then be punished if she's not a good mother when she's simply a teen & aren't all teens somewhat self-absorbed ?

why should she go - why shouldn't she go

if 15 year old was resentful for having to watch kid brother - than she's going to be more resentful for being punished for something she didn't want or shouldn't have to do

[don't forget to marry her off at 18 so she resents it even moreso after she has a baby at 19]

MaBelleVie

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 10:24 pm

Emotional wrote:

I agree with this. First of all, I believe that whenever possibly the consequence should be related to the misdeed. Second of all, she owes it to her brother to make it up to him. She hurt him. Missing her trip doesn't benefit him in any way. Let her learn that she took something from him, and now she must give him something to make up for it. It's better chinuch for both of them.

I would take away her trip only if she committed a serious misdeed that directly affected you.

causemommysaid

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 10:29 pm

amother wrote:

wow.

actually I think the punishment is lenient for what she did.

I would be concerned by such a cruel streak.

a 16 year old letting a child cry for an hour when she could have easily fixed the issue? where does she get it from? was this totally out of character or does she display this behavior often?

greenhelm

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 10:39 pm

greenfire wrote:

so 4 1/2 year old is screaming & crying & now 15 year old is being punished for not dealing with him ... why is a 15 year old playing mother ?

I don't know that opening a zipper can really be equated with "playing mother" - it's a simple enough thing that hardly requires a huge investment of time and effort. Ignoring a distressed child for an hour when it's something easily remedied is kind of spiteful, brother or no brother. She knew what she was doing was not ok.

Heh. You want to drive her nuts? Take your daughter on the trip, and take your son, too! Kidding, kidding.