Should we stick with this punishment?

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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angelinheaven

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 11:17 pm

Op, you mention that this particular daughter is the oldest. How many children do you have after her?

Dolly Welsh

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 11:23 pm

I am uneasy about having her take the baby out alone, just the two of them. She might not be nice to him. Don't do this, I would say.

But perhaps doing such a trip was not what was meant, or maybe it was a joke.

She has signaled clearly she does not feel concern for him.

vintagebknyc

Thu, Oct 24 2013, 11:45 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

dolly, are you serious here? I had a contentious relationship with my younger brother for our entire childhood, and I did pick on him and make him cry. I did (in my defense, he was insanely annoying. which he agrees with, btw). regardless, if I had to watch him for the day I wouldn't chuck him into moving traffic. these are VERY different scenarios in sibling relationships.

rosenbal

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 12:08 am

ysmommy wrote:

amother wrote:

OP here: I probably should have said what he wanted! He wanted his snack from his backpack, which was on a bench right near my daughter. He couldn't get the backpack open (the zipper was stuck). DD knew all this and ignored him, and didn't even try to open it. She admits that she completely ignored him, and even knew at the time that it was totally wrong. She knew that if she got the lunch, he would have been totally quiet, but she decided to ignore it for an hour.

I really appreciate the responses! Thank you! I am very torn!

wow.

actually I think the punishment is lenient for what she did.

I would be concerned by such a cruel streak.

a 16 year old letting a child cry for an hour when she could have easily fixed the issue? where does she get it from? was this totally out of character or does she display this behavior often?

I have no clue what made her daughter do this. It sounds strange. I was the oldest child at home and was definitely in charge of the others at times. That's fine. That's normal. That's why I think the oldest DO deserve extra special privileges above and beyond the other children. Special privileges come with extra responsibility. Often that ends up on the oldest.

I think the best is probably to do what the others suggested about her taking him on an outing or babysitting him extra for you in a nice, responsible way.

Why did she do it though? Is she resentful? Do you rely on her too much and this is her way to get back at you passively-aggressively? (Thinking of the famous "story" of newly wed husband breaking the dishes so he won't be asked to wash them again Very Happy

) If so, try to step back and think: do you over burden her? Talk to someone whose advice you trust in these types of parenting matters, someone who has a lot of experience with teens and perhaps with teens who have been resentful with how parents treat them.

Now, I am not saying not to give your teen responsibilities (all your teens). But once you decide on what's appropriate, make sure you're communicating with all your teens about how extra resonsibilities are part of being older but that comes with extra privileges. They go hand in hand. Make sure all your older kids HAVE extra privileges. I heard a parenting teacher say that every kid in a family should have 3 or so extra privileges than the child below them. It should be worth their while to be older and responsible.

Finally, if Chas V'shalom as the poster above mentioned, what she was doing was done out of a mean and cruel streak? If she has such a middah, that needs working on - not to take away her time with you, that won't help anything. Help her work on this. Find opportunities for her to do chessed and to give to others. But ultimately, if this in fact was her being cruel and it's not the first time...maybe she needs to talk to a psychologist?

amother

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 11:42 pm

OP here: So, the final decision is in! My 13 year old dd gets to to on the shopping trip. It was not easy, and in the end, I let my husband make the final decision,

The 16 year old understands what she did wrong, and that it wasn't just about that, but her behavior leading up to it as well. As my husband reminded me, she was getting to go because as the oldest child, she sometimes has to help more than the others, and she really hasn't been that helpful lately.

My husband then decided that the 15 year old dd should go. Aside from this incident the other day, she's been a really good kid. It was also her birthday recently, so he thought it would be good treat for her. BUT, about 5 minutes after he told her, she started complaining her knee hurt. Well, given the fact that there is a ton of walking, we asked her to rethink going. She said she wasn't sure. Personally, I think she was more afraid of her older sister being upset. She decided not to go.

SO, my 13 year old dd wins the trip! She has actually been super-helpful and super-sweet, and really deserves a nice reward. She never complains about anything, and just has been all-around a sweetheart. She is really excited, and I think it will be nice to bond with her. I think she is actually quite shocked (and very happy) that she is getting to go....being the "third in line"! Smile

I am a little disappointed about not going with my oldest dd. It's been such a nice tradition. However, like I said it'll be great to bond with my 13 year old.

Hoping we made the right decision!

Tablepoetry

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 12:40 am

Sorry, I think it was wrong to make this a competition among sisters for one prized spot.
You are supposed to downplay competition among siblings, not foster it.

How do you think the 16 yr old will feel about her younger siblings now? If she was ambivalent about them beforehand, this certainly is throwing wood into the fire.

Tablepoetry

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 12:41 am

also, just wondering, with 2 more sisters so close in age - didn't they ever want to go on the prized trip? Weren't they jealous?

ElTam

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 1:12 am

I can't believe you are taking the younger sister. If she's been extra good, give her a treat, but not the trip that would have been her sister's if she hadn't behaved so badly.

Whatever good you are doing by taking the trip away from the oldest, you are undoing it times 10 by giving it to another sibling.

Hoping you made the right decision?!?! shock

seeker

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 1:38 am

What I don't get is that the 16 and 15 year olds were both responsible for the 4y/o together, and yet the 16 year old is losing a major trip while the 15 year old neither gained nor lost anything. 15y/o is no less at fault in the incident. Why didn't SHE open the bag for little brother? The punishment should be for both of them.

Onisa

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 2:23 am

I was soo hurt when I read your desion. I was alsooldest and also had a little brother. Such behaviour is the alarm that Smth is wrong in your relationships. She is not a maid or somebody down theworking ladder she is your daughter and in this situation she mb also needs help ( notwith a zipper but with a peace in mind).
Dont you remember how hard it is to be 16???
It is like you havng period all the time.
And most that Im afraid about is all-doing-good-better-than-others sibbling. Dont complain, always nice, always help... Very worring sighns. The child who is always good is the same as rebelious child but it is a hidden bomb. Been there, seen that.

Isramom8

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 2:24 am

I wouldn't have taken way the trip, but rather found other opportunities for the 16 year old to interact positively with the 4 year old sibling.

The sibling dynamic can be very different from the parent dynamic, and that's okay. My kids in their twenties are clear with my 7 year old that kvetching and demanding won't work with them the way it might work with Mommy because he's the baby.

Teens need bonding times with their parents. It's the glue that holds the relationship together, and a good relationship is the only way parents can have an influence on the teen.

So maybe do a smaller outing just with the 16 year old this time?

greenfire

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 11:12 am

I'm flabbergasted ... the 16 year old gets punished - the 15 year old gets rewarded ... you mentioned they were both supposed to watch kid ... even if 15 year old didn't go - what kind of message are you sending to your 16 year old

besides as I mentioned earlier - no kid herself wants the responsibilities of parenting a child - regardless of age and community pitching in - he is your kid - your responsibility bottom line

bnm

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 12:16 pm

I'm focusing more on the kid. he needed help with his zipper, she knew he needed help and IGNORED HIM FOR A FULL HOUR???? thats more than mean.

amother

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 12:39 pm

No way!!!! That is so harsh! She is not responsible for her siblings they are your children. U can not punish her for that it is not her job. Speak to a psychologist , I've heard them be very against this

Barbara

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 12:47 pm

seeker wrote:

More than that. The 15 year old who was also supposed to be watching the child, who also apparently let him yell for an hour (am I the only one who has trouble thinking of a neurotypical 4-1/2 year old tantruming for a full hour over a snack?) was actually REWARDED by being offered to trip that was taken away from her sister. It was strictly luck that the 15 year-old's knee hurt, and she couldn't go.

Barbara

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 12:50 pm

bnm wrote:

I'm focusing more on the kid. he needed help with his zipper, she knew he needed help and IGNORED HIM FOR A FULL HOUR???? thats more than mean.

IMA! Help me! NOW!

Zevi, I'm in the middle of something right now. I'll help you as soon as I can.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW!

Zevi, you need to calm down. When I'm done, and when you're calm, I'll help you.

NO NO NO. NOW NOW NOW. {TANTRUM}

Ima lets Zevi tantrum, because its not teaching him anything to give in to it.

Is that "more than mean"? I don't know if that's what happened, but just sayin'.

bnm

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 1:19 pm

Barbara wrote:

bnm wrote:

I'm focusing more on the kid. he needed help with his zipper, she knew he needed help and IGNORED HIM FOR A FULL HOUR???? thats more than mean.

for a full hour? he was hungry. when my almost 5 year old is hungry she tantrums. tantrums at that age for a NT kid is usually due to hunger/tired/or being sick. his sister acknowledged that she deliberately ignored him, BOTH deliberately ignored him. it wasn't just annoying little brother going in one ear/out the other, they knew what and why he wanted and chose to let him suffer.

EmesOrNT

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 1:34 pm

I don't get all of you. I think it's normal to have a 16 year old be in charge of her brother for a bit. What's the big deal? Why did she ignore him? What was so important that she couldn't open a freaking zipper? She behaved badly and should be punished for it.

greenhelm

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 4:10 pm

Barbara wrote:

seeker wrote:

What's with all the neurotypical stuff? I don't see how it is oddball at all for a hungry 4 year old to be frustrated with an older sister who can't be arsed to take 10 seconds out of her day to open a zipper so he can eat his snack. It probably was not the snack so much as that his older sister was going out her way to be unpleasant - I'm sure it would have been easier on everyone to just open the zipper and get on with life! It would have make a huge difference to him, and would be a throwaway gesture for her. He was hardly asking for anything unreasonable or beyond the pale - this was his designated snack in the designated bag. I'd be frustrated myself, but perhaps I'm not neurotypical.

Tablepoetry

Mon, Oct 28 2013, 4:46 pm

Yes, it's nasty and mean to ignore a small, hungry boy. Yes, it deserves a real punishment. Personally, I would be furious at a daughter of mine if she did that. Where's her compassion?

However, I think a parent should think a million times before punishing with something that is a once-in-a-year event.

And I think it's very worrying that the parents here seem to be constantly measuring which daughter is more deserving. You can already see how it's playing out with the daughters. The 15 year old felt guilty and turned down the trip voluntarily; in other words, she realized something is wrong. The 13 year old is desperate to be the perfect child and 'win' her parents' approval. Even at the expense of her sisters.

I can't see what good will come out of this approach.

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