Was this weird? | Imamother

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Nov 24 2013, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

I have never heard of a man working as a shadchan that is not very tsnius at all, and why would he approach a girl he doesn't know from Adam about it but just saw her on the bus? sounds fishy and kind of dangerous to me.

Huh? Why not? I have heard of many men who work as shaddchans in the charedi world. What could be untzanua about it? Wow, talk about reverse chovinism.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Nov 24 2013, 4:32 pm

A man of 120 may not approach a girl and start discussing a shidduch.

His wife, maybe.

The OP never said her daughter's age. If she is of marriageable age, it is still unacceptable to chat her up and ask personal questions.

In matters of legit shidduchim, Ruchel knows best, as she is a shadchan.

Of course there are men doing shadchanus.

But a discreet, proper man would have said, have your parents contact this number for a possible shidduch with my son/nephew/grandson. We are the so and so's of whaddyacallit street, and we are in the widget business. Goodbye.

Ruchel

Sun, Nov 24 2013, 4:36 pm

I totally agree the personal questions etc are creepy, and if she is a teen as in "not legal", he shouldn't be suggesting any shidduch to her, especially without the parents there, unless she's from a rebbish crowd where they get engaged at 16 but then in these crowds he wouldn't talk at all to her.

It has happened to me to suggest a shidduch to a woman, or even a man, that I met somehow in weird circumstances, assuming maybe Hashem placed us together for this reason. But again I'm not an older guy chatting with a teen girl lol.

amother

Sun, Nov 24 2013, 5:18 pm

I am the op, dd is nearly 16, bH next month, sorry I totally forgot to mention her age.

She should not have talked at all to this man. It's a problem, she is far too naïve I think. I think she thinks that when someone talks to her, they are trying to be friendly? For example, as I said, at the beginning, she thought he was lost, and that he was trying to get his bearing. I think there was manipulation on his part. Only later did he start becoming more personal, at which point she realised something wasn't right, and she signalled that he should stop conversing with her, and that she was uncomfortable.
As for the shidduch aspect, she is young, but I can't explain it she has a style about her, nice looking, and not at all provocative or immodest (Of course her skirt covers her knees). We are modern orthodox - strict. It was freezing on Friday and she simply looked very much dressed for a winter's day. She is very clever but she is immature - perhaps he thought she was older than she was not because of how she looks but because sometimes she has an air of confidence about her - although, I know, she has none sadly. She is extremely shy.
He spoke in Hebrew (we don't live in Israel), he spoke like a religious (well, frum) person, he had a kippa and a hat on top of it (which she said he took off when he was asked her something), quite frankly I don't think she was sharp enough, she took too long to realise it wasn't right. I know she wouldn't give anyone she doesn't know her number, or accept a shidduch from a stranger (she's FAR too young and has had barely any contact at all with boys - it is insane to think he believed she has a "boyfriend"), but THANK G-D she was safe and he left when he did.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Nov 24 2013, 5:32 pm

It is time for her FATHER, not you, to quietly, but clearly, explain to her that male people who are not small may not speak to her.

Gloriosky.

And a big puffy white coat is the chic-est thing ever. Your daughter is dressing like a very attractive grown woman. She has a ton of style.

And she's naïve.

And she is sweet and wants to help.

I defer to Ruchel here.

Ruchel will know what to do.

The bad 'uns always say they are lost. It is the oldest line in the book. "I don't know the way, show me, go there with me because I don't know this area and I don't understand your directions, so just take me there" is the second paragraph.

I repeat, you got off easy.

It's mainly her friendly naïve personality, not her coat.

If she is really that gentle and unsuspecting, you may have to accompany her places for a while yet.

amother

Sun, Nov 24 2013, 6:03 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I can't tell her that she needs to change the way she dresses because she does not dress immodestly. She only ever looks graceful never immodest/seedy/provocative. So long as she is tsniut, skirts below the knee, elbows covered, no coloured tights, no luminous colours, no bold letters, I can't limit her freedom over what she wears. Within this boundary (which is not big) she can choose - if she wants to take pride in her appearance that's fine by me - my own mother taught me to do so. She was NOT dressed immodestly, she was not "attracting". Know what I mean? She didn't even make eyes at this man, she went straight to the back. She never calls attention to herself. It's he who had the problem not her. I believe he would have done the same to any girl if another girl had got on the bus that day, not that I know what his intentions were.
I totally agree with you she is naïve. She probably was confused and didn't understand that being "rude" I.e. ignoring his question and going to the front of the bus immediately was the right thing to do.

Don't worry it has got through to her to be on her guard 100 times more from now in - she was scared, she is now scared to go on the bus alone.

yomomf

Mon, Nov 25 2013, 4:53 am

does she have an older sister or similar figure in her life? If not it could be you but someone should talk to her. Not in a serious heavy way but show her the ropes. What every attractive girl should know.

she needs to learn that a conversation does not need to be uncomfortable in any way for her to decide to end it. Thats her perogative. I dont answer the door to men when my husband isnt home and I'm alone. Not if they are borrowing eggs for their wives or collecting tzedaka or delivering something. She has the right to end any interaction she wants. Even if they just want directions.

she needs to learn how to do so firmly. If someone asks her a question she can raise her eyebrows shrug and pull out a book/ipod/phone. that gets the message across somply enough.

If thats not enough she can have a code phrase with you. My single sister will call me sometimes and say 'Hey, you said you wanted to talk to me about something, I have time now...' . When she does that I know to put my phone on speaker and listen to her one sided conversation with me while I take care of what I have to. If I'm not too busy to talk I do but otherwise I listen to make sure she's safe. She is always sure to give me any important info in passing, such as "I'm on my way to Esti's house and am already on X street so I can talk for 15 minutes."
Later she'll call me and say 'thank you, I was walking and there was nobody around except this one guy making all the same turns as me' or whatever the situation was.
I did the same thing to my older sister and she did it to my aunt. (My mom would get nervous and panicky, not the best person to call on in a potential crisis moment). Now I do it to my husband if necessary.

amother

Mon, Nov 25 2013, 12:10 pm

How awful. I'm so sorry that happened to your dd.

It's just insane how many wackos there are. The other day a disgusting thing happened to me on the bus as well. Well it was not as creepy at what happened to your daughter, but it was pretty sick.

I was sitting on the bus and I noticed this man staring at me. So I moved to another seat where he wouldn't be able to see me, hopefully get the message and hoped that he would have forgotten about me by the time I got off the bus so he wouldn't follow me (because that can happen you know, some crazy people stalk you and follow you around it's really frightening). Anyway then the man comes up to me and offers me £20. he like sticks it out to me. I was completely horrified, thinking what on earth is he giving me that for? I was not dressed like a poor person, and as you can imagine, I do not dress in revealing clothes being a religious woman. Anyway, I was pretty horrified but he wouldn't go so I just said "no." He was like "no?", and then he went upstairs. I know why he went upstairs, because had I gone to the driver to report what he did which is illegal, he would have got in trouble so he was probably scared.
By the way this was not a Jewish man. He looked like a weirdo and was really scary.

I can totally understand how uncomfortable that was for your daughter, because it reminded me of what happened to me, and it really upset me like I couldn't stop thinking about all day and how it made me feel.

You really have to be careful, because people can follow you and trace your whereabouts.

Mommastuff

Mon, Nov 25 2013, 1:51 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

amother wrote:

My neighbor is a shadchan, but I think he works together with his wife.

there are plenty of male shadchanim, but they don't approach strange girls, the girls come to them to seek a shidduch.

Creepy and sly guy. It's hard for a naive girl, but keep reminding her of things to look out for and how to keep safe.

Ema of 5

Mon, Nov 25 2013, 4:05 pm

Mommastuff wrote:

eema of 3 wrote:

amother wrote:

My neighbor is a shadchan, but I think he works together with his wife.

I totally agree it was weird and creepy. I was just respondinnto the person who sai they've never heard of a male shadchan.