When does teaching responsibility veer into overburdening?

freidasima

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 3:18 pm

"Being a kid" is not a job. It is not a state of mind, and it is highly overrated.

We live in a society in which we infantilize children, teenagers and young adults until an advanced age and then pay the price in terms of an abundance of childishness, immaturity, selfishness, lack of responsibility etc. There is a balance between that and overburdening people, children and adults in general.

In a society in which one is not master of one's own body, in terms of having to ask permission to regulate childbirth, it is a luxury to keep people children for too long and there is a tendency to want to do it by some in view of the lack of control that they feel that these children, especially female children, will have over their destinies and their own bodies as they get older. Hence one of the prices is a desire to not to "burn out" such girl children before their time as they will surely be "burned out" later by necessity. It is a very difficult balance.

Interesting that in smaller families and particularly ones living in a society in which one is considered master of one's own destiny and body, it is rarer to hear a sentiment of "let them be children" for longer and it is davka in such groups that it becomes much more common for children to be encouraged to take on certain responsibilities at a younger age, as part of a looked forward to maturity.

A kind of "catch 22" wouldn't you say, in view of the nature of some parts of orthodox and certainly ultra orthodox society...

imaima

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 3:29 pm

amother wrote:

This happens to be a very very big pet peeve of mine (that's why I am anon)
Older kids should help with housework, I don't believe they should be helping with childcare. They didn't ask for siblings you are the parent.
I remember growing up I had a friend who was not allowed to play at other kids houses on shabbos afternoon. I was allowed to go to her however, her parents would go to sleep for a few hours and she would be in charge of everyone else. I went a few times and never went back again. What fun was it when the younger siblings kept bothering us. Oh and we were eight to ten at the time.

Excuse me, what kind of reasoning is that? I see it time and time again. They didn't ask for siblings. But they also didn't ask to be born! Just like a parent can decide to have an older sibling, they can decide to have a younger one!

amother

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 7:30 pm

imaima wrote:

amother wrote:

Fine but then they have to take care of them!

amother

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 7:32 pm

Emotional wrote:

amother wrote:

That's a very extreme example... but I don't think it's so bad to ask my 11-year-old to entertain the baby for 10 minutes so I can take my son to the bus stop - is it?

Honestly I don't know what I think about that. First of all where I live unless I am waiting right outside my house I wouldn't leave an eleven year old home alone. But I don't think I would do that unless the child offered. I would bring the baby with me to the bus stop.

Emotional

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 7:37 pm

amother wrote:

Emotional wrote:

amother wrote:

That's a very extreme example... but I don't think it's so bad to ask my 11-year-old to entertain the baby for 10 minutes so I can take my son to the bus stop - is it?

I live in an area where it's safe & it's the norm to leave an 11-year-old alone for a BRIEF time (in New York I would not have done it).
I mean, as opposed to bringing an infant into the bitter cold.

Barbara

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 7:40 pm

amother wrote:

imaima wrote:

amother wrote:

Fine but then they have to take care of them!

Asking older kids to occasionally help with childcare doesn't mean that the parents aren't caring for them.

Honestly.

Dad's cooking dinner, and he runs out of onions. The 15 year old, 9 year old, 7 year old and 3 year old are home. Its not exactly abdicating parental responsibility to ask the 15 year old to look after his siblings for 20 minutes while Dad runs to the store.

It's a family. Everyone is expected to help out at times. We're not talking about telling the 16 year old that he can never go out with his friends because its his responsibility to look after siblings. But asking to pitch in is OK.

iluvy

Mon, Dec 16 2013, 8:52 pm

freidasima wrote:

This is a strange thing to say. Do you have any sources for it? In the "olden days," women had little control over their fertility (crocodile-skin condoms aside), and in those times there was no concept of childhood. The entire concept is a pretty modern invention. (Google define:child for a nice little chart of mentions of the word "child" in books over time; it's almost doubled since 1800). And nowadays, the societies that infantilize children the most are the 1.2-child families, who baby their children well into adulthood. So I would say the exact opposite is true.

amother

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:09 am

I had 8 younger sibs, I pretty much raised them. I failed through school & missed out a lot of social events as a kid cuz I was too busy taking care of my "kids". Interestingly enough although Ive sworn to let my kids completely off the hook I too realize now (oldest DD is 7) that there is a serious crucial balance.

I have an enormous amount of knowledge, confidence, independence & sense of responsibility because of the responsibilities I had as a child.

PUNCHLINE: I think more kids today are suffering the cushioned children syndrome. THe affects of letting kids get away with murder is WAAAAAAAAAAY WORSE than overburdening them. They turn out to be much more handicapped adults when they are overprotected...

cookiecutter

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:09 am

It's a balancing act that depends on the individual child's maturity, personal inclination, relationship with siblings, etc. My oldest two kids could not take care of their younger siblings for opposite reasons - one is too anxious and the other too impulsive. One would call every two minutes to find out where we are and when we'll be home, the other would start a video game and forget everything else. Also, when we leave them alone for two minutes they fight with each other; they certainly couldn't take care of anyone else. The same is true for other housework - with one, I'd have to check and recheck every bit of housework and walk her through it, while the other would be timing how long he could hop while balancing the margarine and eggs on his head while he helped make supper. OTOH, my neighbors are fine leaving their ten year old boy in charge of several younger children because they get along well and are more even-keeled.

amother

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 12:15 am

Important to keep this in mind. If your child isnt at least doing her personal chores you are OVERPROTECTING him/her!!

Ages 2 and 3
Personal chores

Assist in making their beds
Pick up playthings with your supervision

Family chores

Take their dirty laundry to the laundry basket
Fill a pet's water and food bowls (with supervision)
Help a parent clean up spills and dirt
Dust

Ages 4 and 5
Note: This age can be trained to use a family chore chart.

Personal chores

Get dressed with minimal parental help
Make their bed with minimal parental help
Bring their things from the car to the house

Family chores

Set the table with supervision
Clear the table with supervision
Help a parent prepare food
Help a parent carry in the lighter groceries
Match socks in the laundry
Answer the phone with parental assistance
Be responsible for a pet's food and water bowl
Hang up towels in the bathroom
Clean floors with a dry mop

Ages 6 and 7
Note: This age can be supervised to use a family chore chart.

Personal chores

Make their bed every day
Brush teeth
Comb hair
Choose the day's outfit and get dressed
Write thank you notes with supervision

Family chores

Be responsible for a pet's food, water and exercise
Vacuum individual rooms
Wet mop individual rooms
Fold laundry with supervision
Put their laundry in their drawers and closets
Put away dishes from the dishwasher
Help prepare food with supervision
Empty indoor trash cans
Answer the phone with supervision

Ages 8 to 11
Note: This age benefits from using a family chore chart.

Personal chores

Take care of personal hygiene
Keep bedroom clean
Be responsible for homework
Be responsible for belongings
Write thank you notes for gifts
Wake up using an alarm clock

Family chores

Wash dishes
Wash the family car with supervision
Prepare a few easy meals on their own
Clean the bathroom with supervision
Rake leaves
Learn to use the washer and dryer
Put all laundry away with supervision
Take the trash can to the curb for pick up
Test smoke alarms once a month with supervision
Screen phone calls using caller ID and answer when appropriate

Ages 12 and 13
Personal chores

Take care of personal hygiene, belongings and homework
Write invitations and thank you notes
Set their alarm clock
Maintain personal items, such as recharging batteries
Change bed sheets
Keep their rooms tidy and do a biannual deep cleaning

Family chores

Change light bulbs
Change the vacuum bag
Dust, vacuum, clean bathrooms and do dishes
Clean mirrors
Mow the lawn with supervision
Baby sit (in most states)
Prepare an occasional family meal

Ages 14 and 15
Personal chores

Responsible for all personal chores for ages 12 and 13
Responsible for library card and books

Family chores

Do assigned housework without prompting
Do yard work as needed
Baby sit
Prepare food — from making a grocery list and buying the items (with supervision) to serving a meal — occasionally
Wash windows with supervision

Ages 16 to 18
Personal chores

Responsible for all personal chores for ages 14 and 15
Responsible to earn spending money
Responsible for purchasing their own clothes
Responsible for maintaining any car they drive (e.g., gas, oil changes, tire pressure, etc.)

Family chores

Do housework as needed
Do yard work as needed
Prepare family meals — from grocery list to serving it — as needed
Deep cleaning of household appliances, such as defrosting the freezer, as needed

Frumdoc

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 9:02 am

Where does this originate and who wrote it?

I get frustrated when someone post something like this but gives no reference or source. For all I kmow, it is just amother's personal opinion, which is no more valid that anyone else's. And why amother anyway?

amother wrote:

seeker

Tue, Dec 17 2013, 11:38 am

I am not holding there in parenting yet, but I think a general rule of thumb is whatever is typical among the child's peers. If everyone is doing it, then they won't feel overburdened by it; on the other hand, if everyone is not doing it, you run that risk (e.g. if all of the other kids are able to go out together on Shabbos afternoon and yours is the only one who has to miss out, that's going to create resentment)

I think you can give or take a year or two depending on the kid's maturity and capability (e.g. some 11-year-olds will be able to handle responsibilities more common to 12-year-olds, and vice versa) and you can give or take a FEW items from the "standard list" but the general idea should be approximately equivalent to others in the same peer group.

If you have an overall healthy balance, I think it is fine to make exceptions for special circumstances. The child's help should be extra appreciated in that case. E.g. if mom is sick for a day or a week (not long term) the child can be expected to pitch in more, and the parent should give them a thank you note with chocolate or something inside. They can understand that they are helping out in a pinch and not being chronically taken advantage of, and they can be made to feel good about themselves for being so dependable.