Whether to vaccinate or not

imaamy

Mon, Jul 18 2005, 10:34 pm

OK, I feel strongly about this so I will start a thread in Controversial Topics. There is a natural parenting section on Imamother as well as other womens web-sites. So if many people choose not to vaccinate their kids and can send them to school, camp, parties, shul events, the pool, etc., then those kids who aren't vaccinated might cause these diseases (polio, mumps, etc) to come back. What if another child hasn't yet been vaccinated although the parents plan on it, and contracts the disease? Why takes chances with your own child and others?

Last edited by imaamy on Fri, Jul 22 2005, 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total

deedee

Mon, Jul 18 2005, 11:05 pm

after all the research I have done I find it healthier to not vaccinate my daughter.
my Dr and I are building up her immune system aginst these illinesses using homeopathics.

Mandy

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 12:34 am

I would not want to send my child to camp or school with kids who didn't get their shots.

chavamom

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 12:56 am

Mandy wrote:

I would not want to send my child to camp or school with kids who didn't get their shots.

If your child is vaccinated, why is this an issue?

imaamy

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 1:09 am

It would not be an issue for a vaccinated child. However, if at the shul or school there are younger kids who haven't finished their series of vaccines, it would be an issue. Also, on a global or macro scale, it is a public health issue. Tremendous money was put into creating vaccines to wipe out these diseases (that are still epidemic in some 3rd world countries). If people who choose not to vaccinate have kids who, G-d forbid, get sick, Medicaid, insurance, taxpayers ultimately pay for the medical care. Just like if a lifelong 3 pack-a-day smoker gets cancer or emphysema, does it only affect him/her? No, we all pay in the drain on the health-care system (addressing the US health care system on this one).

IndyMom

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 9:58 am

Don't let your kids play on the swings then, if they break their leg (Chas VeShalom) we are all paying for their healthcare.

imaamy

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 10:20 am

I don't see playing as a part of childhood as the same as becoming ill from something that is preventable. Remember the mom who has a family member brain damaged from an illness that does have a vaccine? So many of us in this generation are far removed from what polio, etc can do. I believe if people saw the effects, they wouldn't take chances with their child's, and others', health. Also, with the swings comparison, which as a science student you realize is comparing apples to oranges, treating a broken leg isn't a chronic drain on the healthcare system as is treating the effects of polio.

1stimer

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 10:33 am

It is an issue for kids who cannot get vaccinated for genuine medical reasons.

timeout

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 3:58 pm

What happens if a child who wasn't vaccinated comes in contact with someone who has lets say Polio or Mumps or Measles.

They than bring it home to there new baby brother or sister that just came home from the hospital.............

Then they go to school with what the mother thinks is just the beginning of the flu or a cold and all the children who are not vaccinated in school catch it and there siblings and so on.................

This really sounds like a very scary movie that would have a bad ending!

buba123

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 4:27 pm

imaamy
I totally agree with you. I have worked in the medical field for over 7 years. Some people have no clue what they're talking about. I've had mothers come into the pediatric practice where I worked and refused to allow their children to be vaccinated. When I told them to bring in relevant medical data to back their issues and stories they told against immunizations they were unable to. One brave mother actually printed off some medical texts from the internet. The pediatrician I worked with checked out the data and found many studies to be totally misleading. A lot of the info. recorded in the papers was totally false!!

1stimer

That is a whole separate issue.

deedee

Maybe you can pm me some of the research. would love to read it. I don't mind being proven wrong (only sometimes - jk!)

deedee

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 5:07 pm

Quote:

I don't mind being proven wrong (only sometimes - jk!)

I dont need to prove anything! there are 2 sides to everything and I just want amother to be awear of pros and cons then make an informed decision. not just blindly follow the dictates of the gov or docs. we are free thinkers!!
I posted this in the other vaccination thread but I copied it here...

here is a must read article by Dr. Mendelson, its the other side of the coin.
http://www.chirotips.com/immunization.htm

vaccination exemption

Quote:

We have been told by our Pediatricians that we must immunize our children, and we see billboards around town with pictures of infants that say “Love them, Immunize them” Who could argue with loving your children? The truth they do not tell you however, is there are many complications that could arise as a result of the vaccination, long lasting and dangerous side effects that could plague our cute little bundles of joy for the rest of their lives. Some people may be uneasy about this invasive practice, but feel pressured by pediatricians and laws which mandate vaccination for enrollment in daycare centers and in schools. THE TRUTH IS EXEMPTIONS EXIST IN EACH STATE. There are religious exemptions, medical exemptions, and some states offer what is known as philosophical or personal belief exemptions.

Quote:

Proponents of vaccines are quick to cite the polio vaccine and the eradication of smallpox as being the two great benchmarks of vaccination. Those that oppose vaccination, however, argue that infectious disease mortality rates in the U.S. and England declined steadily before the advent of vaccinations due to improved sanitation, hygiene and diet. If these two vaccines were responsible for the decline of polio and the eradication of smallpox, how did these epidemics end at the same time in European countries who refused to vaccinate against the diseases?

about polio....

Quote:

The rise in Bone, Lung, and Brain cancers are being attributed to the Salk Vaccine administered since 1950 and still being given today. It is responsible for the only reported cases of polio each year in this country averaging 3,000. Yes, the only cause of polio in the US is a result of the polio vaccine.

look what VACCINES can do to the unvaccinated!!

Quote:

Adverse reactions not only affect your child but the parent / caretakers are also at risk. Studies now show that a vaccinated individual can actually transmit the contaminate to others via body fluids. So your child can be vaccinated with SV40 and this SV40 can be passed through the feces and contaminate the person changing the diaper. So the mom or dad, baby-sitter, nanny, grandma, etc.. can become contaminated with a known carcinogen. You can even pass SV40 through semen. Yes it can be s-xually transmitted to your loved one. So an unvaccinated person can become contaminated via relations. See Money Magazine article.

Quote:

Now the Mechanics: Fact: a newborn’s immune system is highly underdeveloped and does not become fully mature until the child is 12 years old. In order for the immune system to develop properly, it must be challenged naturally through exposure to viral and bacterial microorganisms. These microbes enter the system via the mucus membranes of the body including the gastrointestinal, respiratory and genitourinary tracts. AKA NATURAL IMMUNITY. The mechanics of vaccination on the other hand is quite unnatural. Instead of a small amount of microbes entering our systems gradually overtime, massive quantities of antigens are introduced into the body through a series of vaccinations that are given right in a row over a short time. All vaccines except the oral polio vaccine are injected directly into the blood stream, by-passing the mucosal immune system known as the secretory IGA.

after reading this article it recomfirms my decision not to vaccinate but to build up my daughters natural immune system, naturally!!
_________________

chanab

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 5:58 pm

The way I see it is that there are risks to BOTH options. It depends which risks you are comfortable taking.

Motek

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 6:06 pm

imaamy wrote:

Remember the mom who has a family member brain damaged from an illness that does have a vaccine?

and the man around the corner's son is brain damaged after being vaccinated

therefore?

deedee

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 6:13 pm

Quote:

and the man around the corner's son is brain damaged after being vaccinated

the vaccine is something that u have a choice to put in your childs body with lots of risks. I'd rather take the slim chance that my daughter might C'V catch s/t then inject her with s/t I know will make her ill.

mommy2

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 6:18 pm

Quote:

inject her with s/t I know will make her ill

Why are you so sure it make her ill?

Mandy

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 7:35 pm

Quote:

The slim chance comes with worse reprecussions than the vaccine. it's all a question of statistics. How many children have died from vaccines ? How many have died from polio and whooping cough ? Don't quote the autism research that is not verifiable.

and when I wrote that I would not want my kids playing with others who have not been vaccinated, I meant little kids who didn't finish their shots.

Aish

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 9:43 pm

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Last edited by Aish on Tue, May 09 2006, 9:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

chavamom

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 9:58 pm

Personally, I don't think all vaccinations are created equally. The Chicken Pox vaccine, while seemingly fairly harmless, appears to be causing all kinds of problems with the population at large. For one, there has been an large increase shingles cases since the vaccine was introduced and the speculation is that it is b/c of decreased exposure to the wild virus. Basically, everytime a person is exposed to the virus it is like a 'booster shot' for the person, reinforcing their natural immunity. Take C/P out of circuation and that effect is gone (I guess I'm assuming, which I shouldn't, that everyone knows that C/P virus lives in a persons body forever after they have it. It is generally kept under control by a person's immune system, but it can be reactivated and reappear as 'shingles'). Also, C/P has more complications the older a person is when they contract it. It has been demonstrated that by ONE YEAR after vaccination, the effectiveness is down to 80 some-odd percent. So what we have done with this vaccine is take a generally benign disease out of the age group where it is more likely that it will be an uncomfortable childhood disease and made it more likely that people will get it when they are older and the disease more dangerous! Add to this the fact that C/P can be caught from someone with shingles and you realize that we will never be able to irradicate the disease. Even those who have been vaccinated are at risk later on for shingles - it is a live virus vaccine and the virus behaves just as if a person had had a case of C/P.

That was my long winded answer to why I wouldn't give the C/P vaccine to my kids.

Anyone remember the 'rotoshield' disaster a few years ago? Another usually yucky bug that is not particularly danger (rotovirus) and the vaccine wound up causing more problems than the disease.

On the other hand, I want my kids to have a tetanus vaccine. Dangerous disease, hard to know if exposure has occured, often fatal.

WITH all this being said, I think that it is imperative that mercury be taken out of all childhood vaccines. There is a mounting body of evidence that repeated exposure (the body does not excrete mercury) through vaccination *is* dangerous. Esp. the more vaccines that are introduced.

imaamy

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 10:09 pm

Some posters are spliting this topic between Natural Parenting and Controversial Topics. I moved my comments to Controversial but if you are interested in both sides of the debate, read the comments in Natural Parenting AND Controversial Topics.

deedee

Tue, Jul 19 2005, 10:18 pm

Quote:

Why are you so sure it make her ill?

"Adverse reaction to vaccination , as you can see, can take decades to manifest. Short term problems usually arise within hours of a shot. High fever, high pitched screaming, collapse shock, and unconsciousness are the most common and are quite frightening. But the long term effects...Learning disabilities, Hyperactivity, Autism, Juvenile Insulin Dependent Diabetes, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Degenerative Arthritis, Asthma, Allergies, Eczema, Cancer, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), HIV, Abnormal neural function, Chronic Neurological Disorders, Chronic Immunolgical Disorders, etc... This is scary stuff. Vaccines allow attenuated virus’ and bacteria to literally infiltrate our DNA, actually altering our genetic makeup. This coupled with the poisonous compounds they are suspended in , as previously mentioned above, are introduced directly into our blood stream (except for the oral polio vaccine)."

Last edited by deedee on Wed, Jul 20 2005, 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total