Calling Shomrim | Imamother

amother

Coral

Thu, May 10 2018, 10:24 pm

I have a relative who was going through a nasty divorce where his wife was trying to keep the children from him. He lived in the basement and the night before it was his turn for visitatoin the wife called and said the husband had just abused her. The police came and arrested him. They did even though they clearly saw that they just woke him up and the allegations werent true. In NY at least, if a woman says she was abused they arrest the man without any evidence. He spent the night in jail and was released the next day. The dropped the charges.

She did this twice more to him and then the judge who was overseeing the divorce realized what was going on. She threatened that if she does it again she is going to lose the children. So it BH stopped. But he spent 3 nights in jail.

So yes - people do get arrested without evidence. I dont know details about this case. It's possible he's guilty, but I wouldn't say there's any proof of that until there's an actual trial and we can all hear the evidence.

WhatFor

Thu, May 10 2018, 10:44 pm

amother wrote:

Oh, I totally agree with you that people can get arrested for certain things without any evidence. I was responding to an amother who said specifically "when it comes to rape allegations".

The thing is, in order to charge someone with a crime, they need to prove certain "elements" of the crime. Such as the defendant did A+B+C= so they're guilty of this particular charge. So some charges don't require a lot of physical evidence to be believable. Some charges are more difficult to prove without any evidence, because the nature of the crime is such that it would be difficult for someone to have committed it without leaving any evidence.

This is why, by the way, you'll sometimes hear of someone getting charged with a lower level crime than what you think they actually should be charged for. The district attorney decided that they couldn't bring enough evidence to make the case for the tougher charge (even though the general public might believe they should be charged with it) so they make the case for the lower-level charge, so at least the perpetrator gets convicted of something.

I would be surprised if they decided to take someone in on a rape charge with absolutely zero evidence to go on. It could happen, I'm sure. But the accused would get released in a second because the DA wouldn't take the case or they wouldn't make it very far in court.

Of course it's possible he's innocent. But I think it's important to not come out with "oh, he's definitely falsely accused." This response is what keeps victims of zex abuse from coming forward. And I don't think it's responsible to make blanket statements like, "when it comes to zex abuse they don't need any evidence, unfortunately." Which is not very far from saying, "In many cases where someone is accused of zex abuse, the victims are lying."

amother

Papaya

Thu, May 10 2018, 11:01 pm

you said it yoruself, even with zero evidence, only some1 sayign so, they'd get arrested... and released in a second. sometimes that "second" it takes a day or two to get in front of a jduge. but for now its in all the headlines and dnewspapers that so and so got arrested and if theres smoke theres fire.... your nto gonna hear when hes released cusz thats not newsworhty.
all I cna say is be happy your lucky not to know thsi and still be all believeing in our justice stystem....

amother

Cyan

Thu, May 10 2018, 11:49 pm

Whatfor, Yes in New York when it comes to rape, abuse, molestation... they arrest without evidence & it's the victims word against the arrested.... I don't see what you find so strange with my previous post, it's the truth.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, May 10 2018, 11:57 pm

A lot of times they arrest on vey little hoping to draw out more victims with the publicity.

amother

Burgundy

Fri, May 11 2018, 12:36 am

Weird how many imamothers are insisting this story isn’t true.

Mommyg8

Fri, May 11 2018, 12:56 am

amother wrote:

Weird how many imamothers are insisting this story isn’t true.

I don't think they're actually saying that the story isn't true, they're saying that sometimes the accusations are not accurate, which is a big difference.

In this case, we all have no idea if it is true or not. I think we'd all LIKE for this story not to be true, but unfortunately, it may be true, who knows?

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Fri, May 11 2018, 1:18 am; edited 1 time in total

silly

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:03 am

Dh is a shomrim member and I know for a fact that he is totally innocent not bc dh us trying to defend him .

Mommyg8

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:17 am

silly wrote:

Dh is a shomrim member and I know for a fact that he is totally innocent not bc dh us trying to defend him .

Thank you for clarifying.

jflower

Fri, May 11 2018, 7:28 am

tweety1 wrote:

No worry ladies, we still have shmira. Personally, I tried calling Shomrim on a situation Shomrim said sorry can't help you so I called shmira who were there in a minute. I'm not affiliated with any members from any of them. Just my personal experiences.

What is shmira?

tweety1

Fri, May 11 2018, 9:14 am

jflower wrote:

What is shmira?

The same as Shomrim. It's their competition.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, May 11 2018, 9:24 am

amother wrote:

Weird how many imamothers are insisting this story isn’t true.

Innocent until proven guilty is always my motto in life.

amother

Burgundy

Fri, May 11 2018, 9:27 am

amother wrote:

Innocent until proven guilty is always my motto in life.

But the same applies to the accuser. I don’t assume she is lying.

amother

Burgundy

Fri, May 11 2018, 9:28 am

silly wrote:

Dh is a shomrim member and I know for a fact that he is totally innocent not bc dh us trying to defend him .

How do you know for a fact?

amother

Papaya

Fri, May 11 2018, 9:57 am

im not saying true or not , jsut saying that an arrest means absoultely nothing!!! they can arrest plane cuz some1 calld in a compalint to 911 a nd when they call in the person he says I have ntohing to say. so they arrest and put you in a holding cell hoping youll 'talk'... do you suspect your dh brother fil neighbor of rape or molest??? but you dont know for sure?!!? same thigni is with this guy in the news except that hes under investigatoin while others arent.

WhatFor

Fri, May 11 2018, 10:11 am

amother wrote:

How do you know for a fact?

There are at least two ways she can know that for a fact. She was with the accused or the accuser for every second of every day around the time that these events are alleged to have taken place, witnessed all of their actions, and knows that they didn't occur. In which case I suggest she takes her testimony to the police.

Or she's good friends with the accuser who told her herself that she's making up a story? In which case I highly recommend she records that and takes it to the police.

Otherwise, I suspect the poster meant she has difficulty believing the allegations. But that's very different from knowing for a fact.

WhatFor

Fri, May 11 2018, 10:19 am

amother wrote:

Innocent until proven guilty is always my motto in life.

It's actually a legal standard that orders how a court views a person.

Pirkei Avot says that if two people are in a dispute about something, you have to view them both as guilty until after the court decision.

That could be because whenever two people are in disagreement about what happened, you're automatically going to assume that one of them is lying. So in this case, when you say the shomrim guy is innocent, you're effectively saying the accuser is guilty of lying about awful things. At least if you view them both as potentially lying, you're not more biased toward one?

In any case, even if you want to view as innocent someone accused of zexually assaulting another, view them however you like, but imo you still must take every precaution with innocent teens and children around such a person.

silly

Fri, May 11 2018, 10:32 am

How do u know for a fact that hes guilty??
The father threw out the girl from his home
Mr daskal and his wife arranged to find a warm loving home for this girl...
I cant wait for the truth to come out

WhatFor

Fri, May 11 2018, 10:37 am

silly wrote:

Who on this board said they know for a fact that he's guilty? People can hold the belief that it's possible he's guilty and it's possible he's not.

So your certainty of his innocence is based solely on the fact that the accuser's father threw her out of her house and the accused and his wife invited her in?

silly

Fri, May 11 2018, 10:41 am

I dont have the time now to write the entire story .but as far as I and many others know that the accusers father threw her out..this girl isnt even living at daskals home..
Bc hes an askan he tried to arrange and find a warm loving family for her

Git shabos to all