Calling Shomrim | Imamother

icebreaker

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:05 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

The BTK Killer was married for 34 years, and had 2 kids. They thought they had a normal life. Except he was a serial killer.

Gary Ridgeway murdered 70 people. He raped some of them in their bed. His wife thought they had the perfect marriage.

Robert Yates Jr killed at least 16 people, and despite being together for 26 years, his wife, Linda, never had a clue. In fact, she refused to believe he was capable of committing murder until police found a body in their backyard.

Yes. And they just caught the East Area Rapist who managed to elude law enforcement all this time and he raped numerous women and killed about 12 people. It's actually really unnerving to wonder if the person standing next to you could be a serial rapist or killer because most of the time, no one would ever know unless the person got caught.

amother

Floralwhite

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:21 pm

icebreaker wrote:

I’m waiting for Papaya another to say these men sonr count because they’re not frum

amother

Mistyrose

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:29 pm

Regrettably a lot of these things are politically motivated. Does anyone think Cohen would have had his office raided if he wasn't connected to Trump?

Alleged victims lie as do perpetrators as do cops as do prosecutors especially in Brooklyn. The press then goes off on witch hunts. The prosecutors want to score points. The standards for arrest are low. And there are many convictions of innocent people.

amother

Mistyrose

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:38 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

I don’t understand something. Because there may be one bad seed, the whole organization is to be disregarded? No one else can do any good becasue this one person may have done something terrible?

Organizations often have cultures. Would this make you think twice before you let someone from there help your daughter?

SixOfWands

Fri, May 11 2018, 1:47 pm

amother wrote:

Organizations often have cultures. Would this make you think twice before you let someone from there help your daughter?

I wouldn't call them in the first place, but its not my culture.

I'd be more worried about guys like Alex Lichtenstein who bribed cops to expedite gun permits. Organizational culture there? Maybe.

Is Shomrim a den of rapists? I highly doubt it.

WhatFor

Fri, May 11 2018, 2:26 pm

eema of 3 wrote:

I don’t understand something. Because there may be one bad seed, the whole organization is to be disregarded? No one else can do any good becasue this one person may have done something terrible?

I agree with you, although some might be bothered because he founded the organization in that particular location.

I wouldn't put this on any other volunteer unless this story turns out to be true and other volunteers knew or had reason to know about it and looked away. But at this time, I wouldn't just assume that others knew about it.

Ema of 5

Fri, May 11 2018, 3:10 pm

thunderstorm wrote:

Who said the whole organization is bad? Who is disregarding a whole organization?

The OPs first post was don’t call shomrim. That, in my eyes, is equivalent to saying they are all bad.
She didn’t say be careful, she didn’t say make sure you stay with your kids when a call is made. She said flat out don’t call.

chestnut

Fri, May 11 2018, 4:05 pm

WhatFor wrote:

It's code for "no need to worry about what this child says. She's so unlovable even her own father threw her out."

It's a reprehensible thing to bring up, regardless of whether you think the shomrim guy is guilty or not.

OR it's a code for "her abusive father threw her out of his house and this family was helping finding a nice family for her to live at, and the father became angry and made it up".

I don't know what happened. All I know is that "code" could mean either thing, so it's not intellectually honest to talk only about one.

If it happened, I really hope this guy gets punished to the full extent and gets what child rapists deserve in jails, and that the girl can heal.
If it didn't happen, I really hope those behind it get what they deserve for it.

WhatFor

Fri, May 11 2018, 4:19 pm

chestnut wrote:

It wouldn't have occurred to me that someone would use it in that sense because it strains credibility that cops would arrest another person on rape charges solely on the basis of a third party without so much as interviewing the victim.

And again, people are losing sight of the fact that this wasn't any ordinary community member. This was the head of an organization that had close ties with the police. The relationship between shomrim and local police is mutually beneficial so I think they'd be careful about jeopardizing that. And this is the kind of person who has ties to law enforcement so they know they're not going to get away with throwing together an uncorroborated haphazard case based solely on statements made by a third party, which wouldn't be allowed in court so they'd literally have no case.

WhatFor

Fri, May 11 2018, 7:05 pm

In any case, he pleaded not guilty and was ordered held on 75k bond.

The Daily News reported that he was arrested after authorities recorded a phone call between him and the victim. So we can put to rest this whole "her father" theory which appears to have been created based on nothing.

The paper did not say what was said on the call. It is not uncommon for police to try to get the victim to talk with the accused (while wired) and try to elicit a confession by saying all she wants is an apology, or something like that. But again, this paper doesn't say what was said in the call that led to the arrest.

amother

Papaya

Sat, May 12 2018, 11:52 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

And you keep on believing that someone calls the police and says "oh, Jimmy raped someone," and they speed off and arrest Jimmy without any investigation whatsoever, without interviewing witnesses, looking for DNA, or anything else.

You keep on believing that because someone tells you "I didn't do it, completely bogus" that they're always innocent. Even if that person is your husband or father or brother. Because no one EVER lied about being guilty.

Arrests can only be made on probable cause that the suspect has committed a crime. Police have a duty to adequately investigate the factual circumstances surrounding the particular incident and to only make an arrest upon a reasonable and adequate investigation.

Does that always happen? No. (And, in fact, usually doesn't happen in things like bar fights, where they see -- or think they see -- what happened.) Do police arrest people who turn out not to be guilty? Yes. (And are plenty of people acquitted who are guilty. Yes.) But the police don't arrest without some cause.

You sound exactly like the people who defended Nechemya Weberman.

My heart breaks for victims, who know that people like you will attack if they come forward.

u wanna know how it goes? some1 goes into the station and says jimmy raped some1 andthey ask him how do u know? and he says cuz I sopoke to this some1 who said that jimmy mistrreatd her and they call in jimmy to ask ihim and jimmy knows better than to answer cuz they alwyas take ur words out of context use it against u and also jimmy looks like a hassid and we 'know ' all hasids are pigs.so they arrest jimmy to force him to talk.
so now u say jimmy is a rapist cuz in all the news it says that jimy was arrested for rape.... and u wont hear abt his release the next day cuz thats not interesting news...
all fo this actualy happend in a diff 'case'

SixOfWands

Sun, May 13 2018, 12:22 am

amother wrote:

Its clear English is not your native language, and maybe it happens that way in your country, but I will confidently say that no one in the US has ever been arrested and charged with rape because a third party claims that he was told by someone else who told him that a woman said she was mistreated.

The police will ALWAYS interview the victim.

Moreover, even in your scenario, there is no indictment, no trial, no conviction.

SixOfWands

Sun, May 13 2018, 12:29 am

amother wrote:

This thread is one piece of lh. Did you see it happening? Were there two people that are trust worthy and that saw? Otherwise YOUR SHOULD BELIEVE ITS NOT TRUE!!!!! Unreal!!!

Yeah, well, are you going to feel that way if someone rapes your daughter? Not 2 witnesses, no worries, you go on doing it, sir. In fact, please, hang out with her. Have at it some more.

What of YOUR lashon hara of this child, doubting her?