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shabbatiscoming









  


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 2:06 am
amother wrote:
Maybe someone has the link, but there's a video on YouTube where someone goes to R Aharon Leib Shteinman ztl and asks him whether the school is required to accept a child with a less distinguished background (I don't remember the exact details) R Shteinman gets visibly angry and starts screaming, "gaavah! gaavah!" They again explain why it's better for the school not to have this kind of background, and he keeps screaming, "gaavah! gaavah!"

So there you have it, from the mouth of a gadol hador. Too bad most have too much gaavah to even consult a gadol.
Look on the previous page or just upstream in this thread. Someone posted it.
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thunderstorm









  


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 7:18 am
amother wrote:
Those type of people make me mad, but if were going to be honest, those people are not exclusive to the frum population. Although it's frustrating that they will give me a bad name, I guess it's all in Hashem's hand. I suppose it's the way black people feel when there's constant murders and robberies by black people, and people begin to fear them. Yes it's unfair, but that's life. Don't make this a frum problem, that's what frustrated me.

I had a conversation with a friend who's daughter is very anti the system. She was bullied a lot there, and claims that if she went to school in the USA she would not of been bullied, the schools are more accepting and less tolerant. My response was: "I went to an OOT tolerant school where we had a massive mix of yeshivish, MO, Mizrachi, AND anyone in between. There was 1 Jewish day school, everyone went there. I was bullied for many many years as a child and it's effect on my emotional health and the trauma will affect me for the rest of my life, statistics actually say that 1/3 of children ARE bullied sometime in their lifetime.".

Her response. "Okay you were a fluke, I don't believe that, it's the chareidi system."

Rolling Eyes Can we differentiate between problems that affect the entire world and "frum" problems. I know we are supposed to be holier and stuff, but were human and we as a population suffer from many "normal world problems". Don't make it a "system" problem.

Sorry about the rant! I had to say this. I love your posts Thunderstorm, and Ia do agree those people were jerks, and reading your post got me mad. But remember jerks are found everywhere, although it's sad they use yiddishkeit as a venue or validation for being a jerk.

I would agree with you if these are random situations. But the problem is it has become the norm. Once it becomes normal amongst a large group of people there then is issue for concern.
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amother




Seafoam


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 7:34 am
thunderstorm wrote:
Rainbowdash you hit on a whole other topic and sadly I agree with you. There is just something very wrong within the frum world especially in the tri state area possibly other places too.
I live on a quiet street and someone that was looking at a house got my number and called to ask me who the other people on the block are. We are just four houses . Me, and three houses. A gentile with a dog, the house for sale and a house owned by someone in Brooklyn that rents out part of it to a modern divorcee with kids.
I got a call from a prospective buyer asking me first what she could do to bother the gentile enough so that he moves out quickly. The second question when she heard what type of family lives here was "Do you have her landlords number so I could call him and ask how dare he rent out his house in such a "torahdig" and "chashuv" neighborhood to such modern people".
Who do people think they are? They plan to move in and "change" everyone to be like them! No regard for chilul HaShem , sinas chinam or pure rishus!!!! All in the name of Yiddishkeit no less . So yes, this is a whole other spin off.


We were raised heimish. DH and my siblings are mostly chasidish. DH wore part of the livush.

Not long after we moved onto our block there was a meeting. Our neighborhood was becoming popular and they wanted to make sure the chasidim stay away. They actually bullied a chasidish buyer, he flipped the house stating he would be crazy to live here. Some litvish people that look like they belong here have moved away due to the insane attitude of people (yeshiva rabbis and mashgiach's) deciding they are better people and look down at everyone else. The neighborhood shul isn't a place my DH would walk into. People don't get an aliah is their havarah isn't "right'.

This all sounds insane, unfortunately this is just part of the insanely. There is so much anti-Semitism on my block, sometimes I feel like I live in a foreign country.

I would move tomorrow if I had the money to. I look at houses weekly, I just can't afford them.
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LovesHashem









  


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 9:05 am
thunderstorm wrote:
I would agree with you if these are random situations. But the problem is it has become the norm. Once it becomes normal amongst a large group of people there then is issue for concern.


I doubt this is the norm. They are still a minority, they may have bashes and shuls and stuff, just like they have those antifa or ultra liberal rallies. But no one goes around America being like "Antifa...totally the majority of society" or "Eh, it's normal".
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iluvy









  


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 9:11 am
These stories are so heartbreaking Sad I can't think of anything more likely to send a kid off the derech than being told that no frum school wants them. These days, what keeps our kids frum is a sense of community and belonging.

I would like to cover this topic in Tmunah Jr's back-to-school issue. Since we're a kids' magazine, the article wouldn't focus on changing policy and structural problems, but sharing stories and letting kids know that they're not the only ones and it's not their fault. Please let me know if you or your child would like to share your story

tmunah.magazine@gmail.com
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Chayalle









  


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 9:39 am
I agree that bullying is a universal problem and not a "frum" or "yeshivish" or "chassidish" problem. Bullies will be bullies, and they will find people to bully. One of my DD's was bullied for being yeshivish, can you imagine? The bully would write down names of "yeshivish nebs" on the classroom blackboard, for that day's taunting/ostracizing. The girls who supported her were actually terrified of her - I heard this from two different parents whose daughters were on the bully side and got into major trouble with the school and had to learn how not to be a bully's pawn.

(We got my daughter loads of support during this time, and B"H she came away stronger and more confident. Sadly, I've heard that the bully is very at-risk, maybe not frum today, certainly not in a healthy place. Makes me feel sorry for the bullies themselves, and their families.)

It's so painful to read about adult bullies who are using their tactics and mishugasim (no better word I can think of!) to manipulate their neighborhoods. That's crazy! Driving families from their homes, how low can you stoop. If you happen to be here on imamother and have ever engaged in such tactics, I just want you to know what I think of you! Ugh! Just want you to know, this world ain't the point - there's an everlasting world up there, and you might find yourself in a VERY unpleasant neighborhood when you get there, with nothing you can do about it. For shame!
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amother




Oak


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 9:53 am
This is all so horrible.
Why does everyone flock to Lakewood? I
The world is large...I live in Detroit and it's nice and welcoming. On the downside, we don't have 500 kosher restaurants. On the pro side, no one has trouble getting into school. Gee....what a hard decision...
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naturalmom5









  


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 10:03 am
amother wrote:
Those type of people make me mad, but if were going to be honest, those people are not exclusive to the frum population. Although it's frustrating that they will give me a bad name, I guess it's all in Hashem's hand. I suppose it's the way black people feel when there's constant murders and robberies by black people, and people begin to fear them. Yes it's unfair, but that's life. Don't make this a frum problem, that's what frustrated me.

I had a conversation with a friend who's daughter is very anti the system. She was bullied a lot there, and claims that if she went to school in the USA she would not of been bullied, the schools are more accepting and less tolerant. My response was: "I went to an OOT tolerant school where we had a massive mix of yeshivish, MO, Mizrachi, AND anyone in between. There was 1 Jewish day school, everyone went there. I was bullied for many many years as a child and it's effect on my emotional health and the trauma will affect me for the rest of my life, statistics actually say that 1/3 of children ARE bullied sometime in their lifetime.".

Her response. "Okay you were a fluke, I don't believe that, it's the chareidi system."

Rolling Eyes Can we differentiate between problems that affect the entire world and "frum" problems. I know we are supposed to be holier and stuff, but were human and we as a population suffer from many "normal world problems". Don't make it a "system" problem.

Sorry about the rant! I had to say this. I love your posts Thunderstorm, and Ia do agree those people were jerks, and reading your post got me mad. But remember jerks are found everywhere, although it's sad they use yiddishkeit as a venue or validation for being a jerk.


My humble thoughts on that are..

If you go to a PS.. And no I DO NOT MEAN.... PS12 in the South Bronx... (I know, it makes staunch Lakewood defenders feel good to think PS is teitch... a really decrepit inner-city hellhole)..
But I mean a good PS in Larchmont or Greenwich Ct, or even a working class suburb. At least, with the PS your parents didn't mortgage their life away, and live in total deprivation, so you can go to a school that terrorizes the whole family . You can't wear this, or go here, or do that etcc..
The oppression just gets worse every year, and you walk away with an abysmal secular education. And then to add insult to injury, the school can't even teach basic middos and Jewish rachmonus to the children.

I understand that bullying and other related problems are universal and human nature. How the Torah exhorts us to fight that in numerous places.. So when you live with dearth and deprivation and encounter so many obstacles to attend this wonderful "Torah" school , and then they have a worse bullying problem then many public schools with a woefully inferior education to boot, its extremely disillusioning...
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mother36









  


Post  Sun, Jun 17 2018, 12:36 pm
Something is truly messed up with the orthodox school entry system today. I don't know if this is happening outside of New York City but in New York the admission protocol into schools is utterly disgusting & a chillul Hashem. They practice nepotism & favor close friends. I agree with the post that they are anti BT, and anti anyone who deviates from their exact mold. It is a closed minded & ignorant attitude. Whoever is going through this rejection pattern is not alone. Obviously there are others going through this as well & we need to look at this as being bashert. That Hashem is closing doors to guide us in the right direction. We hope & daven that Hashem should guide us in the right direction for our children & that we should be matzliach in our path.
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WastingTime









  


Post  Sun, Jun 17 2018, 1:26 pm
In my neighborhood in Israel ppl change their Sfardi names to Ashkenazi sounding ones to get into schools
It's nauseating. But the worst part of it is that the schools obviously know they changed their names, they just want to see that the family has the desire to go along with the whole farce.
My husband went to YU and wrote that on an application to cheder, someone said 'why didn't you write Yeshivas R Yitzchak Elchanan?'
Same idea, they know that's YU, they want to see you'll play their game
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WastingTime









  


Post  Sun, Jun 17 2018, 1:32 pm
amother wrote:
Maybe someone has the link, but there's a video on YouTube where someone goes to R Aharon Leib Shteinman ztl and asks him whether the school is required to accept a child with a less distinguished background (I don't remember the exact details) R Shteinman gets visibly angry and starts screaming, "gaavah! gaavah!" They again explain why it's better for the school not to have this kind of background, and he keeps screaming, "gaavah! gaavah!"

So there you have it, from the mouth of a gadol hador. Too bad most have too much gaavah to even consult a gadol.

And then they did a great spin on it in Shabanikim! I was dying of laughter.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Sun, Jun 17 2018, 2:09 pm
amother wrote:
This is all so horrible.
Why does everyone flock to Lakewood? I
The world is large...I live in Detroit and it's nice and welcoming. On the downside, we don't have 500 kosher restaurants. On the pro side, no one has trouble getting into school. Gee....what a hard decision...



I live here too and have never heard of kids not being accepted into a school. There may be a problem, however, in changing schools but not with initial acceptance.
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southernbubby









  


Post  Sun, Jun 17 2018, 2:14 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
My humble thoughts on that are..

If you go to a PS.. And no I DO NOT MEAN.... PS12 in the South Bronx... (I know, it makes staunch Lakewood defenders feel good to think PS is teitch... a really decrepit inner-city hellhole)..
But I mean a good PS in Larchmont or Greenwich Ct, or even a working class suburb. At least, with the PS your parents didn't mortgage their life away, and live in total deprivation, so you can go to a school that terrorizes the whole family . You can't wear this, or go here, or do that etcc..
The oppression just gets worse every year, and you walk away with an abysmal secular education. And then to add insult to injury, the school can't even teach basic middos and Jewish rachmonus to the children.

I understand that bullying and other related problems are universal and human nature. How the Torah exhorts us to fight that in numerous places.. So when you live with dearth and deprivation and encounter so many obstacles to attend this wonderful "Torah" school , and then they have a worse bullying problem then many public schools with a woefully inferior education to boot, its extremely disillusioning...


I think that if a family can't get a school to accept them, then they are within their rights to turn to public schools. I did read a story of a family who was rejected due to inability to pay, so they went to register in public school. The day school heard that they were registered in public school and rescued them but I have read other stories where the children were expelled over behavioral issues and went to public school and by the time they were invited back to frum schools, they didn't want to go.
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iluvy









  


Post  Mon, Jul 09 2018, 2:57 am
Please pm me if you are interested in writing about this topic for Tmunah Jr.
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iluvy









  


Post  Tue, Aug 14 2018, 11:27 am
iluvy wrote:
These stories are so heartbreaking Sad I can't think of anything more likely to send a kid off the derech than being told that no frum school wants them. These days, what keeps our kids frum is a sense of community and belonging.

I would like to cover this topic in Tmunah Jr's back-to-school issue. Since we're a kids' magazine, the article wouldn't focus on changing policy and structural problems, but sharing stories and letting kids know that they're not the only ones and it's not their fault. Please let me know if you or your child would like to share your story

tmunah.magazine@gmail.com


Just wanted to let you all know that we did publish this story. It's now available in our Elul issue: www.tmunah.com/issues

Thanks to all who contributed their stories! (with permission)
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InnerMe









  


Post  Tue, Aug 14 2018, 11:33 am
iluvy wrote:
Just wanted to let you all know that we did publish this story. It's now available in our Elul issue: www.tmunah.com/issues

Thanks to all who contributed their stories! (with permission)


Kudos to you Thumbs Up
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dorothy1









  


Post  Tue, Aug 14 2018, 12:35 pm
amother wrote:
Not everything is because of background. My friends 5 year old still has no school for next year in Lkwd.

They have tons of yichus and father is still learning. The schools are simply too full. By the time siblings, teachers kids and relatives of administration are accepted there were less than 10 slots in each school she tried.




Is she going into primary or kindergarten? I am curious what schools she applied to , because I know of a number of them that had 20+ slots, which still may not be enough, but I wonder if she only applied to the older established schools , some of which were full before registration even started
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dorothy1









  


Post  Tue, Aug 14 2018, 12:38 pm
amother wrote:
It's partially supply and demand, but that limited "supply" means that schools do get very nitpicky and obnoxious while trying to fill those slots. I was personally subjected to some unbelievably stupid comments while trying to get my daughter into school.


At teh same time, there are many parents who will only consider the "best" school with the "best" name, and turn their heads at some schools that are very good and hashkafically a good match for them because they aren't as established.
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