Shiva visit | Imamother

amother

Teal

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 4:07 am

I need to go be menachem avel someone. It’s extremely awkward for me. Can I go but text the hamakom yenachem to her phone when I’m ready to leave instead of saying it? Or is that really not ok?

amother

Yellow

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 4:21 am

It's awkward for everyone. Do not text the posuk. Walk in and assess the mood. Let the avel set the mood. Practice saying the posuk. I think if it is really hard for you to remember you could do what the secular people do and say "I wish you along life ".

Oh and don't leave when you are ready. Leave when the AVEL is ready.

You can do this.

amother

Crimson

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 4:30 am

To tell you the truth, I felt so stupid sitting there, when people said the Pasuk.
I wish they would not.
Sfardim say Min Hashamaim Tenachumu. It's shorter and in my eyes a lot nicer.
It really helped when people came. Don't stay to long. The point that you care is what makes the difference.

amother

Teal

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 5:25 am

There will be plenty of people there. I was thinking more along the lines of going but sitting further back so I’m seen but don’t need to actually say anything. And then text. Is that still not ok? These are very frum yeshivish people I’m definitely not saying anything in English. I’d just prefer not to say anything at all.

simcha2

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 5:57 am

So don't say the passuk. When you are leaving say "I'm so sorry for your loss". I'm pretty sure saying the passuk is minhag not halacha. But being menahem avel is halacha. Not let your worry about saying the passuk prevent you from doing the mitzvah.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 6:24 am

amother wrote:

Unfortunately I’ve sat shiva a few times.
& I’ve seen alot. But to go & then text On the way out or something never happened. Just go, sit where u want, back of room. In my experience the posuk is written down on a paper hung up on wall behind people sitting. I’ve seen very very knowledgeable people read the posuk directly from paper when saying posuk. So U ARE NOT ALONE in feeling uncomfortable. and if posuk is too hard to say, u can say instead u should have no more tza-ar.

shluchamom

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 6:34 am

Maybe if you share with us (not that you have to) why it's so awkward people will give you more of a response that you are looking for. Seems you wanted the ok to go and not say the possuk. It's ok if you go and say something else or come sit in back and leave but its a bit awkward if the place is empty and it's obvious you didn't say anything. You obviously feel it's important to go yet feel too awkward to speak directly to the person/family. So go at a very busy time when the place is full and so it's less awkward that you didn't make your way to the front and they will still see you came and appreciate your efforts.

Hope this helps

amother

Teal

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 7:28 am

shluchamom wrote:

I was planning to go at night when it’s usually busiest and to stay in the back - hence my question. Can I remain in the back without coming forth and saying the Pasuk? And then just leave after 10 minutes. There will be others there

shluchamom

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 8:33 am

amother wrote:

Going to be menachem avel is about comforting the avel more than about the visitor feelings so it really would depend on your relationship and how they would view it rather than if it's socially ok or not. Only you and the person you are going to visit know the dynamics of your relationship and if they would find that meaningful or hurtful so it's really hard to tell you what is or isn't acceptable.

imokay

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 8:41 am

Not sure why you don't want to say the pasuk but it's more awkward to go and not say the pasuk than to go and say the pasuk.
Everyone is there for the same reason and will be saying the same things, or a variation of them.
If you can't pronounce the words you can say the English translation or if you can't talk at all just a nod and a squeeze of the avel's hand or even an "I am so sorry for your loss. Only שמחות" or similar. Just a personal acknowledgement before you leave.

The avel appreciates each and every person who comes. I know some visitors might feel awkward but really there is no need to be. The avel is mourning and his/her heart is gladdened to see each person who made the time for a personal visit to show care and concern.

amother

Teal

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 9:06 am

shluchamom wrote:

The avel is over 40 years my senior. Just the going is difficult for me and standing and saying the pasuk is ten times harder. She is fully aware of these facts and I do believe she would appreciate that I came, knowing how hard it is for me, and she would understand if I conveyed the message via text or not at all. Just last week she made a phone call for me to a store because it was too difficult for me to call. So no explanation is necessary on my part. The question is whether not going and just texting would be the correct thing or going but not saying the pasuk and maybe texting it instead is more correct.

amother

Teal

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 9:08 am

imokay wrote:

I’m a regular heimish bais yaakov girl - pronouncing the words isn’t a concern for me. It’s the standing up in a crowd of strangers and finding my voice in an awkward situation. Is it really better not to go than to text?

zaq

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 9:08 am

shluchamom wrote:

Going to be menachem avel is about comforting the avel more than about the visitor feelings .

It isn’t about the visitor’s feelings at all. Nobody LIKES making shiva visits.

amother

Ivory

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 9:15 am

I hear your concerns op
you are not alone
perhaps best to go and give yourself permission to not say the pasuk and if you want you will
you'll most likely be happy you went either way
sometimes people don't say it for different reasons

PinkFridge

Tue, Oct 23 2018, 9:16 am

amother wrote:

So your issue is the pronunciation?
Can you get a transliterated form and practice?
If that's too much, and assuming the people you're visiting know, I vote say something appropriate in English.

OK, op, I just read the rest of the thread.
I vote say the Hebrew. But if you can't say something comforting and appropriate in English.

Not all aveilim are glued to their phone, or checking it.

And if you didn't know the departed, you can and still should say to the person you're going for how proud they must be of the nachas the person gave the niftar. Because if you're visiting someone 40 years older, say she's at least 65. That means her parents either went through difficulties themselves like the Holocaust, or grew up in a time where there were still conscious decisions made to stay on the derech.