Ridiculous rules | Imamother

Miri7

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 11:44 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

Ugh, I am getting sick just reading all of this. What are we doing to our kids? This is not chinuch, this is torture.

By us, the last straw was when DD came home (freshman year of HS) and told me that the rav had measured her skirt, not just about the knees, but around the hem, across her hips and bottom, and around her waist. He took his time doing it, before he wrote her up for being one inch too short.

He did the same to all the other girls, and they all agreed that it felt creepy and violating. Why couldn't a female teacher do that? The female teachers just stood by and watched.

Shortly after that, she started cutting classes. Hello, attendance policy? No one ever called to let me know she was missing. As long as she was there at morning roll call, they figured she was around somewhere. Her friends were all cutting, too. Eventually it got so bad that DD started self harming from the stress of trying to fit in, and I had to pull her out after the first semester.

She's angry, bitter, and doesn't want anything to do with Judaism. She was such a sweet, good, cooperative girl up until then. Now she says she's an atheist, because "G-d makes stupid rules."

You can only yell at kids about rules for so long, and eventually some of them will break. Crying

This is disgusting - clearly the Rav was using tzniut rules and hiabauthority to grope young girls. There is absolutely no reason for him to touch them - most especially taking measurements around their hips, waist and bottom!

He should have been fired and reported. Gross.

thunderstorm

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 11:46 am

amother wrote:

Don’t even get me started in that case.
Ridiculous rules:
No ankle boots
No getting together at pizza shops
No buns

Lol. This reminds me of when I went to highschool 20 years ago! Our class even composed a song after the "no booties" rule was passed (Bais Yaakov Highschool, by the way ) and they also had a no wearing sweaters or sweatshirts rule so the girls would wear their coats to cover up the sweatshirts (the heat was always broken in that run down building) so they passed a rule "no coats allowed in the school". The song went to the tune of "Poor old Cow"

Poor old school, poor old school
There was a poor old school
On 15th Avenue
They said "no more booties, only regular shoes"
They put a sign, on the door
"No more coats anymore "
Poor old school, poor old school....

Anyone remember that jingle? That means we are probably classmates. Good memories😀

Metukah

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 12:13 pm

The ethos of the school we send our kids to is very much in line with ours, so I don't have anything against the rules, although others might find issue with them. There are one or two rules that make me roll my eyes, but they don't affect me much so I don't really care.

Otoh, I feel like my sons principal is trying to run the school according to his way of life (he wouldn't send his sons to this school ; it's too modern for him). Examples ; the school rules say that from 4th grade boys have to wear long pants, no shorts. When my son was in 3rd grade, summer has just started and he went to school in shorts. He came home and said that the principal told him to tell me that he can't wear shorts. I looked up the rules and sure enough he was wrong. I told my son that if he mentioned it again he should tell him it's not in the rules. Same principal is also very strict about snacks. Now, I understand the no nush/junk etc,... But my son had his fruit pouch (a 100% fruit Compote type thing in a squeezy bottle that you drink) taken away. They encourage the kids to eat fruit, but when they do bring fruit they take it away. He told my son, you can bring it, but not in the original packaging, only in a container or in your own bottle.?? ? On Sundays there are no school lunches. My son doesn't like filled sandwiches so I send him plain bread with a yoghurt. Guess what? The principal doesn't let bring yoghurts. It's really frustrating. He's got this weird obsession with only bringing food in snack bags, non labelled containers and not bringing anything in original packaging. The kids are allowed to bring pretzels but not a small pack of pretzels. It has to be bought in a lunch bag. It's pretty annoying. Not sure what his reasoning is and this is all quite new so we're gonna call him to discuss it.

amother

Tan

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 12:22 pm

Another thing that bothers me immensely is that in some schools girls have to line up to get their hair length and their skirt length measured! And it gets written down! This is so humiliating & literally like in the concentration camps! Like lining up for inspection. I cant understand it.
If school would trust their students to do the right thing and actually give them a chance to prove themselves without pressure, I can almost promise you that the girls will turn out much better. Girls should be good and tzenuis because they WANT to, not because they where forced to. We need to instill in them a warmth towards tzenuis that they should want to on their own! More crasy rules without explanations will only push them away.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 12:30 pm

amother wrote:

This is the outcome of people shrugging their shoulders and letting things slide until they get completely out of control. And that's when we realize that we've given someone too much power and now have very few, or any options left.

We said nothing when they started making up new rules (not related to tznius). We shrugged ourselves, and said 'what can we do', 'it's only a minor thing', 'I can live with it', etc. And then that school board or person got emboldened and added a couple of more things - but still we are afraid to ruffle any feathers, or get together and say anything about it. So we still grinned and bore it and moved on. But then more and more things were added on, and some of them bordered on absurdities, and started affecting our daily lives, but what's left to be done now? We've granted so much power to that board/person, they'll do anything it takes to retain it. Who wants to relinquish power? The board/person will utilize the Torah (via false premises) to rationalize their actions, and anyone who voices so much of an opinion is labeled as a rebel or similar.

We created this situation.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 12:37 pm

amother wrote:

Omg this is NOT literally like the concentration camps. Seriously. Do you know anyone who actually went through a concentration camp?

In my BY schools we didn’t really have any unreasonable rules, but I do see the same schools piling on more rules as the years go on. There were always rumors about “spies” in my school too but I don’t know how true that was, and we certainly didn’t think that they’d spy on our clothes out of school! More like who was going to the movies or to blockbuster or hanging out with boys at the pizza store.

Ravenclaw

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 12:41 pm

amother wrote:

Considering that the spirit of tznius is acting regally, this goes against the very essence of it.

groisamomma

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 12:56 pm

amother wrote:

My sons all attended a chassidic cheder and I never knew that there was an issue with size of kappels. I just bought them kappels that looked neat on their heads. Years later some ppl commented that their kappels were small that I realised that there are "rules." things only become an issue when a fuss is made of nonsensical issues. My kids schools have a rule that the fewer rules there are the more will be kept.

I send to schools that mostly align with our hashkafos. Some rules outside of school are suggested so if I keep to them wonderful, if not nobody's ever called me out on them. In the summer, one dd likes tights, the other 2 like socks. Nobody cares or said anything as long as in school they wear tights. I think if you abide by the rules and are a reasonable parent they don't scrutinize you, nothing to do with money. I've never, ever heard of the school measuring ponytails or skirt lengths although my own kids will sometimes tell me at the end of the year that there was an announcement over the PA system that as summer approaches and the girls have grown during the year they ask everyone to be mindful that skirts should be covering their knees. Reasonable request dealt with well, IMHO. Nobody gets embarrassed or humiliated.

Funny, when ds was in 7th grade he came home and asked me to get him a 6-part kappel. Apparently all the other parents knew about this concept and their kids wore it but clueless me just bought whichever black velvet yarmulke I found in the store for years. I think it was nice that the menahel approached him quietly at recess and told him that he might want to ask his mother to buy him a six-part. DS looked around and noticed everyone else wearing it so of course I bought him one. I thought it was dealt with tactfully. When he got older I only let him wear short sleeved tshirts outside of cheder, out of respect for the cheder's rule that boys wear long sleeves to school beginning in fifth grade.

Last edited by groisamomma on Sat, Dec 01 2018, 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

perquacky

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 1:27 pm

Metukah wrote:

Otoh, I feel like my sons principal is trying to run the school according to his way of life (he wouldn't send his sons to this school ; it's too modern for him). Examples ; the school rules say that from 4th grade boys have to wear long pants, no shorts. When my son was in 3rd grade, summer has just started and he went to school in shorts. He came home and said that the principal told him to tell me that he can't wear shorts.

This reminded me of a story dh told me from his high school days. His public school had a rule that shorts couldn't be worn. But he's a schvitzer--still is--and there was no way he was wearing long pants in a school without air conditioning.

So one day, he's at his locker in the hallway and the principal comes over and reminds him that shorts are not allowed. My oh-so-sarcastic husband says, "So what do you want me to do?"
"Take them off," the principal responds.
"Take them off? Are you sure?"
"Take them off now!"

Which my husband did. In the hallway. In front of other students.

Did I forget to mention he was going commando that day?

amother

Ruby

Thu, Nov 29 2018, 1:36 pm

I went to a pretty RW Litvish elementary school. When I was in 7th grade the previous principal moved and they hired a new principal with Chassidish leanings.

She and I did not get along, to put it mildly. I had previously been known as a good kid, but this woman and I simply did not see eye to eye. By 8th grade, I was telling my parents that if they don't allow me to apply to other high schools (not to the one associated with my elementary school) they should plan on homeschooling me. (This woman was principal, at that time, of both junior high and high school.)

At the end of 8th grade, we had a graduation meeting, and the principal informed us that she feels it would be a very nice thing (but it was made clear to us that this very nice thing was very much expected) if we all put on beige stockings for graduation.

I went home and told my parents that I would not be attending graduation. B"H my parents took my side, and called the school owner, who assured my parents that this was not coming from the hanhalah as it was not school policy and no one's minhag, and the matter would be dealt with.

The upshot of this was that my parents made some quick phone calls, in June, and got me accepted and registered at the local BY for high school. B"H. I firmly believe I'd be OOT today if I had stayed there.

When principals make their own school rules.....