What not to do at a shiva call

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amother

Jade

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:21 pm

I recently went to a terribly sad shiva where parents were sitting for a very young child. While I was there, the mother was composed and talking sadly about the niftar. Another woman who had come to be menachem avel approached the mother as she was leaving, to say hamakom yenachem. The mother reached up to hug the woman, who then proceeded to begin sobbing hysterically on the mother for a couple of very long minutes. The mother looked physically uncomfortable, and she ended up comforting the woman the whole time. I was cringing and feeling so bad.

Chayalle

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:27 pm

amother wrote:

On the same vein (but maybe even worse), when I was sitting shiva for my husband, one of my younger DD's teacher's came and told her that when a girl loses a parent abnormally young as she had, she needs to ask herself how she might have improved her tznius. My older DD is the kind of girl who would have known that teacher was an idiot, but younger DD is a very sincere little girl (whose tznius is just fine, btw). She always took life very seriously, and this really bothered her. I have never forgiven that teacher.

I'm literally freezing up hearing something like this. No words.

Hug

amother

Tan

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:35 pm

When we sat shiva for my son, I was amazed at all the former friends and neighbors treated it as some sort of reunion, or asked me who did my floors, or made other inane conversation - all while my world had just shattered and was lying at my feet in a million pieces . . .

Then there was the aunt who told me they had been wondering how they would travel in from out of town for my son’s bar mitzvah when his birthday was so close to that of other boys in the family - guess that problem was solved ;( and the person who commented that she was saving on the price of two meals, since we wouldn’t be attending her son’s wedding . . . You couldn’t make this up. One of the worst things people said to me was “You’ll have other children, and you’ll forget . . .” DON’T SAY THAT! One child can never take the place of another, and who wants to forget a beloved child??? . . . And from what I hear, we got away easy. I know someone who was told at the shiva for his child that the reason for his loss was that he had not yet put up mezuzahs in his new house (well within the halachic limits). . . All I can say is that I definitely appreciated those people who did not know what to say, and said nothing, much more than those who did not know what to say - and said it anyway. . .

Now when I go to a shiva, I compose my features into a suitably solemn/sad expression and sit quietly unless addressed by the Avel. Then I follow the avel’s lead. If possible, I say something nice about the niftar and/or about how much care the Avel took of him/her, etc. If I don’t know what to say, I say Hamakom Yinacheim after a short time and leave.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, but it triggered a whole bunch of intense emotions. Maybe it’s because this all occurred to me during a very vulnerable time, but after 20 years, some of those (thoughtless) comments still hurt . . .

amother

Linen

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:40 pm

amother wrote:

No words. How could people be so heartless?

Last edited by amother on Wed, Jul 10 2019, 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tan

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:42 pm

smileforamile wrote:

No words. How could people be so heartless?

Most of those people are not actually heartless - just thoughtless - but it ends up amounting to the same thing . . . Sad

amother

Blue

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:43 pm

amother wrote:

A few hours after my baby was niftar, a woman who is a really sweet, nice, well-meaning person, but not someone I have a particularly close relationship with, showed up at my house, sat down on the couch and started a crying session. It felt like I was her chesed project for the day.
She may have had genuine emotions, but I felt really uncomfortable.
For some reason, I did not have much tears flowing at that time, and I had to force myself to shed tears.

mommyla

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:44 pm

amother wrote:

What a despicable person. That is horrific.

amother

Aubergine

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:45 pm

While sitting shiva for my beloved mother, someone coming for my aunt who was also sitting Shiva (and whom I didn't know at all) decided to go upstairs to get decorating ideas, and proceeded to go all through my home. Another person, offeried shidduch suggestions to my father, while my mother's body wasn't even yet cold. You can't make this stuff up.

amother

Magenta

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:47 pm

It's about the aveilim, not about you. Do what's right for them.

With that said, it's so hard to.gauge exactly how close you were to.the niftar or the aveilim, and whether they'd appreciate a visit from you or not. In general I'd say that you cant go wrong by showing up and sitting quietly with the aveilim for a few minutes. It is a mitzva after all.

thunderstorm

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:50 pm

OK. This thread is scaring me. Are people seriously that insensitive ??? Every single one of these stories are horrifying to say the least .

sub

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:52 pm

Might I add that one should not go before the third day. This is what my husband was told.
And do not sit more than a couple of minutes unless you are actually there to help with things like preparing food or taking care of kids

amother

Linen

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:52 pm

Delete

Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Linen

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:52 pm

Delete

Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Bronze

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:59 pm

Another story from my sibling who sat Shiva recently, someone thought that it's his job to lighten up the mood and make my sibling smile. So he told a story of a certain city/tribe that they cut their fresh wipes in 1/2 and use 1/2 a piece, not because they want to save money, but because they poop very little!! I'M NOT KIDDING!!! some people just dont have common sense.

Sunny Days

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 7:59 pm

AND DONT ASK HOW OLD THE NIFTER WAS.

Chayalle

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:04 pm

Also, I learned from sitting Shiva that in general - keep your visit short.

amother

Plum

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:07 pm

Can I ask what is so wrong with asking how old the niftar was?
Signed, someone who sat shiva for a 58 year old and a 32 year old.

sub

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:08 pm

And please don’t bring food without calling ahead and asking a family member what is needed. It’s not about you feeling good about yourself for doing something
I don’t think people do anything on purpose. They are just uncomfortable or clueless.
May we all be zoche to many simchos.

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:12 pm

sub wrote:

The bolded is one of those things that you can look very odd being stringent on if that's not the community custom.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Jan 07 2019, 8:28 pm

When I sat shiva for my husband, countless women declared " Hashem picks the most beautiful roses for His garden!!" Hashem took him because he was sooo special...
After the tenth lady expressed this and similar stuff...I was ready to ….

As other posters have said, keeping the visit short and listening more than talking...is best. Then again, while there, you assess situation, and if person wants..you stay on.

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