Shiva: to go or not to go

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 10:31 am

I'm getting a lot of mixed messages from the Shiva threads. Some saying you should go and some saying that visitors are too much and you should stay away. The last thing I want to do is add stress and discomfort to mourners. So, if you're weighing whether or not to go to a Shiva house, how do you make that decision?

Let's assume we're talking about a short visit and no foot-in-mouth comments.

(I'd add a poll if I knew how to do that.)

ShishKabob

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 10:47 am

The shiva visit is not about you it's about the person sitting the shiva. It's a mitzvah to go visit. If you fear that you'll say the wrong thing, just keep your mouth shut. When it's time to leave there's this sign on the wall from Misaskim usually. (don't say the last word. misaskim. lol)

ShishKabob

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 10:53 am

I always had a fear of going to make a shiva call. It changed when I had to sit shiva and I so appreciated everyone that came. That was the game changer for me.

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 11:04 am

If you knew the deceased, or if you are close with the mourner, go. Enter the house and sit quietly for a few minutes. If the mourner wants to converse, follow his/her lead. Then say the verse and leave. Save small talk with other visitors for another time. Everyone is different, of course, but the only times I found it overwhelming to sit shiva was when the room got too loud with side conversations.

amother

Powderblue

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 11:05 am

I am the OP of the other thread.

At one of the shivas, I knew one sister, but not the niftar. I was sitting with the sister I knew, holding her hand as she told a story. My friend's mother told me that she didn't know how non-Jews do it, shiva is so helpful and so meaningful to her.

So yes, if you had a relationship with the niftar, or with an aveil, go.

amother

Mistyrose

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 11:06 am

The vast majority of people I know appreciate people coming, even if some of them were kind of random. The ones on the other thread saying they didn't like it likely had a bad experience--either one of the random people was among those who made epically stupid comments, or they got the sense that some people were there to gawk at the tragedy or score mitzvah points rather than coming to offer sincere condolences and good wishes.

As an aside, I've always wondered about those situations where chalilah someone dies in a terror attack or some other newsworthy manner (such that the story goes beyond local) and total strangers from all over show up to the shiva because "all of klal Yisrael is with you" etc. I always felt very disturbed by that, like aside from how overwhelming it must be for the family, it just seems like people are coming to gawk at the tragedy or for "inspiration p orn" or something. I dunno, I've always found that very off-putting.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:02 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

I always had a fear of going to make a shiva call. It changed when I had to sit shiva and I so appreciated everyone that came. That was the game changer for me.

Same here. I always used to be afraid of saying the wrong things... Since I sat Shiva I try to make the effort to go. I so appreciated everyone that came and didn't analyze their every word or how long they stayed...

someone

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:13 pm

amother wrote:

As an aside, I've always wondered about those situations where chalilah someone dies in a terror attack or some other newsworthy manner (such that the story goes beyond local) and total strangers from all over show up to the shiva because "all of klal Yisrael is with you" etc. I always felt very disturbed by that, like aside from how overwhelming it must be for the family, it just seems like people are coming to gawk at the tragedy or for "inspiration p orn" or something. I dunno, I've always found that very off-putting.

B"H I have never been in this situation and a pray never to be, but I really don't think its like that. At least here in Israel, when someone lo aleinu is killed in a terrorist attack there is a genuine feeling that this isn't just a personal tragedy but a national one, and everyone feels connected to the family and wants to express that. The families often say how inspiring and strengthening it is for them to see so many people coming to be menachem.

amother

Pearl

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:30 pm

It's a mitzvah to go pay a Shiva call, it never occurred to me not to go What

even if I wasn't comfortable or wasn't very close to the niftar or ppl sitting Shiva. You gotta do what u gotta do, obviously don't say or do anything stupid....

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:40 pm

dankbar wrote:

Rule of etiquette is if you would attend their simcha then you also go to shiva, if not then you don't go.

I dont think that's a good rule in every case. In my community people have big families and not a lot of money so guest list for simchas are often limited. Being invited to their simcha is no reflection on the status of your relationship.

amother

Bronze

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:44 pm

amother wrote:

No one neglects to invite someone who genuinely matters. I think it's a good rule.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

No one neglects to invite someone who genuinely matters. I think it's a good rule.

I guess I don't matter to that many people then.

I'm ok with not being invited to simchas. I understand why people might be limited. I don't hold it against them. And it wouldn't stop me from making a brief Shiva call.

Cheiny

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 1:31 pm

amother wrote:

It’s a big Mitzvah to be menachem avel and if you stay a short while, wait to be addressed by the avel before speaking, and keep it tactful, speaking only about the niftar, and act appropriately, one most certainly should go.

Cheiny

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 1:32 pm

ShishKabob wrote:

Actually, contrary to popular belief, it’s not even about the aveilim, it’s a nechama for the benefit of the niftar.

Cheiny

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 1:34 pm

dankbar wrote:

Rule of etiquette is if you would attend their simcha then you also go to shiva, if not then you don't go.

I totally disagree. Many acquaintances would not be invited to a Simcha, but might want to show respect to the niftar by paying a shiva call....nothin wrong with that.