Pet peeves at others' shabbat tables you try not to do

nachlaot

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 11:27 am

hi, what are some minor things that other hosts do that annoy you, that you try to avoid doing at your own shabbat meals?

we're BTs and we got set up with meals at many different families when we were becoming religious. now what we're hosting meals ourselves, it turned out to be very useful to go to so many different tables and figure out what we liked and didn't like, what works and doesn't work, etc.

the purpose of my question isn't to criticize other hosts. it's to get ideas of little things that are important to guests, so we can improve our shabbats.

I'll start with a few little things that annoyed us at other shabbat tables that don't do with our meals:

- not having enough beverages on the table, especially water. if you're at the end of the table, you don't want to have to keep asking people to pass the water. even worse, you don't want to have to keep awkwardly asking people to pass the wine and seem like a drunkard. we usually host about 8 people, and put at least three bottles of seltzer and two pitchers of flat water and at least two open bottles of wine out on the table, and we're replacing them as they go empty. water is free, seltzer (sodastream) is very cheap. no reason not to have these in abundance.

- using tiny plates for the dips/appetizers/salad/fish course. some hosts have an amazing spread with many great apps, salads, etc. and 10 different things going around the table, but their plates are so tiny that you can only put a few lettuce leaves on the plate. we use full-size disposable plates, just as for the main meal.

- not having giving drinkers separate cups for water and wine. people drinking wine still want water. we just put down a wine glass and a regular glass at every seat. it could even be two cheap plastic glasses.

- "go around the table and say something" icebreakers. we find these annoying. people who like to talk just go on and on, or use it as an excuse to brag. either everyone else sits there bored, or side conversations develop and nobody's listening by the time it goes around the table. instead of an icebreaker, at the beginning of the meal, we quickly introduce everyone and say how we know them.

- telling guests "we have more of X in the kitchen and just ask if I should bring out more X." you made a ton of food for your guests to enjoy -- just bring it out! nobody wants to awkwardly ask for more and seem like the pig. we either put everything out or are proactive about refilling stuff.

- not making sure serving dishes are getting passed around. sometimes there's a natural bottleneck. sometimes a guest is inconsiderate and just puts 5 different dishes down in front of him/her and doesn't get the concept of "take and pass." the host should keep an eye to make sure everything is moving.

Last edited by nachlaot on Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:04 pm; edited 2 times in total

nachlaot

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:11 pm

amother wrote:

You seem like a hostess par excellence!
Don’t look into guests plate , or ask them as they eat if they like it or want more ... I have a grandma that always does that. I love her and love going to her, but this is something we always laugh about. Before we even finish our first bite she’s asking if she wants more.
Anon cuz my grandma is known for this 😊

for me, this is a tough one. guys who are good eaters often want seconds or even thirds of something, and will take more of something if it's in front of them but don't want to have to ask rachel to ask shmuel to ask benji to ask chana to pass a bulky tray of chicken. the people in the center of the table often have better access to the food, and the people at the end of the table are stuck needing to ask people every time they want more.

so, I feel like you do have to be conscious of people wanting more, without being the annoying grandma about it. we're never sure how exactly to work this.

keym

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:20 pm

nachlaot wrote:

What I do to avoid that is halfway through the course, I'll say. "Chana can you pass the chicken around so everyone who wants can take doubles. Shmuel can you do the same for the rice. And Yossi, if you don't mind passing me the string beans, but please everyone take if you want. There's plenty more in the kitchen."

amother

Lemon

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:22 pm

I’ll be the voice of dissension re putting everything on the table.

1. We don’t all have tables big enough or serving ware sufficient to accommodate enough food for an army.

2. Food is perishable and Shabbos meals tend to be drawn-out affairs. Cold food needs to stay cold—in the fridge— and hot needs to stay hot—on the blech or crockpot—not on the table incubating germs when meals can last several hours. If people want more we’re delighted to bring in more.

3. If I make ten different side dishes, they’re darn well going in small plates. The idea is that you take a small amount of each. It’s called a tasting menu. You’re not expected to take a large portion. Food is perishable, you know? If I make ten sides in sufficient quantity for everyone to take a big portion, I’ll be left with an enormous amount of uneaten food that I won’t be able to use up before it spoils.

3.You are probably a wonderful hostess. However, you make it sound as if it’s all about the food and you sound resentful of your less-than-perfect hosts. It’s not about the food but about the company, and if you’re going to criticize my hosting because I don’t have space for multiple pitchers and huge serving platters on my modestly-sized table... [edited to remove offensive comment — Rubber Ducky as Mod]

watergirl

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 12:45 pm

amother wrote:

I’ll be the voice of dissension re putting everything on the table.

1. We don’t all have tables big enough or serving ware sufficient to accommodate enough food for an army.

2. Food is perishable and Shabbos meals tend to be drawn-out affairs. Cold food needs to stay cold—in the fridge— and hot needs to stay hot—on the blech or crockpot—not on the table incubating germs when meals can last several hours. If people want more we’re delighted to bring in more.

3. If I make ten different side dishes, they’re darn well going in small plates. The idea is that you take a small amount of each. It’s called a tasting menu. You’re not expected to take a large portion. Food is perishable, you know? If I make ten sides in sufficient quantity for everyone to take a big portion, I’ll be left with an enormous amount of uneaten food that I won’t be able to use up before it spoils.

3.You are probably a wonderful hostess. However, you make it sound as if it’s all about the food and you sound resentful of your less-than-perfect hosts. It’s not about the food but about the company, and if you’re going to criticize my hosting because I don’t have space for multiple pitchers and huge serving platters on my modestly-sized table, I have two words for you and they’re not Happy Birthday.

I agree with your third point. The “salatim course” is meant to be small and not to fill up on. Those salads and dips are served in small serving bowls for a reason! Its meant to be a tablespoon or so per person; a salad plate should be plenty. Although I agree that if the host puts out full serving sizes of all 10 things, a bigger plate should be provided because it is clearly her intention that you take a lot - although its wasteful in my opinion. I, personally, dont like the challah/fish/salad course.

nachlaot

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:12 pm

keym wrote:

this is great.

amother wrote:

3.You are probably a wonderful hostess. However, you make it sound as if it’s all about the food and you sound resentful of your less-than-perfect hosts. It’s not about the food but about the company, and if you’re going to criticize my hosting because I don’t have space for multiple pitchers and huge serving platters on my modestly-sized table, I have two words for you and they’re not Happy Birthday.

again, as mentioned in the op, I'm not criticizing the people who host us. we're trying to make our own meals as successful as possible. we all put a lot of effort into planning our meals and cooking all this food, so why not be interested in how to make our guests enjoy the food as much as possible? especially if it's inexpensive to do so! a few little things can do a long way.

watergirl wrote:

I do think this reflects the difference between men and women. women will take a thimble full of hummus, a thimble full of olive tapenade, a spoon full of israeli salad, etc. to a lot of men, this isn't even a taste. also, while some people don't eat much of the salads and dips, others do because they're vegetarians, or they eat healthy and don't want so much of the meats and starches. I don't want anything to be running out by the time it goes around the table. I also don't want to make our guests feel intimidated to take more than a thimble full of a dip. I'd rather make a 2x portion of 5 things than make a tiny portion of 10 things. plus, it's easier to make 5 things doubled than 10 separate things.

Last edited by nachlaot on Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

little neshamala

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:39 pm

nachlaot wrote:

Wow, I agree with so much of this. When my father died, my mother and us kids were invited out to eat a lot. We always appreciated the invite, and I don't think any of us were high maintainance/picky guests, but we encountered a lot of this, and it was just uncomfortable.

-the going around the table icebreaker-ughhhh, I hated hated hated it. You'd never know, because on the outside I put on a fake, super confident persona but inside I was puking and waiting for it to be over so I could enjoy the rest of the meal. I was totaly happy for the hosts to go around introducing everyone and their connection, but please dont make me talk.

-yes! Put out enough drinks! I used to feel so awkward asking for the water again...watching it being passed all the way down the table was uncomfortable if I needed it more than once

-and yes, dont tell me to eat up because theres more in the kitchen. I don't care if theres more in the kitchen, my brother and I are not taking the last 2 slices of meat...I get the need for the food to remain warm, but then at least refill the serving dish before it gets too empty

There were 1 or 2 families who really stood out at making us super comfortable. They involved us without plunking us in the spotlight...it was great.

Oh! I just remembered. DONT ask your guest if they can give a dvar torah, or "just say over what the Rav said in shul, or what you learned in yeshiva this week". That is humiliating for anyone who just wasnt paying attention, dozing, absent, or just not comfortable giving it over. A simple "anyone have anything on the parsha theyd like to say, feel free to speak up" is more than enough.

watergirl

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 1:43 pm

nachlaot wrote:

If I know I have a vegetarian, I’d prepare more suitable dishes for them in the first place and I make sure they know in advance so they dont feel like they have to fill up during the challah course. But most people realize that the 10 dips/salads are not to fill up on, its a bite size, similar to cocktail hotdogs. One is meant to take a small portion. I think most people see a small dish of olive tapenade and know its to shmeer on challah, not a salad to take heaping spoonfuls of. Even beet or carrot salad are meant to have a few bites and not a cholent sized helping of. Yes, men as well as women. And this stuff is usually swimming in mayo so its not the healthy dish anyways. I bring out a big green salad during the main course. Like I said before, I dont do salads and dips (I put out chummus and matbucha) but I would be really annoyed if everyone was full before the main course comes out. Ergo, the small plates and small servings.

amother

Magenta

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:03 pm

I grew up with a single mom and was then an older single for many years so I spent many Shabbosim with other families.

While I agree that spending a Shabbos meal with others is about the company, not the food, so many of the things on your list are familiar.

The drinks! Yes. Maybe some people just don't drink much? But when there's one pitcher of water on the table for 15 people, well, that's just uncomfortable.

And regarding the small plates for the salad course, I agree, but I think where people are objecting is because we're talking about different things.

In my circles, first course is challah, dips, salads (several big salads - green salad, kale salad, spinach salad, maybe pasta salad) and gefilte fish or salmon). This is the beginning of the meal where most of the divrei torah/kids parshah sheets are done, all the guests have a lot to discuss, everyone is hungry, and it takes probably the largest chunk timewise. And yes, people eat, and it's meant to be a full course. So we use full plates. I have been to houses who have this same setup but give small salad plates. One spoonful of lettuce salad and the plate is covered. This is not a situation where you're only supposed to take a teaspoonful. But it sounds like some people here have a very different setup, where it's just plain challah with a few dips and not a significant part of the meal. in that case, yes, a small plate is sufficient.