Pet peeves at others' shabbat tables you try not to do

SixOfWands

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:09 pm

watergirl wrote:

I agree with your third point. The “salatim course” is meant to be small and not to fill up on. Those salads and dips are served in small serving bowls for a reason! Its meant to be a tablespoon or so per person; a salad plate should be plenty. Although I agree that if the host puts out full serving sizes of all 10 things, a bigger plate should be provided because it is clearly her intention that you take a lot - although its wasteful in my opinion. I, personally, dont like the challah/fish/salad course.

Plate sizes are interesting.

The "salad" plates from my china are not all that much smaller than the dinner plates from my grandmother's china (which I unabashedly covet). And many people believe its one of the causes of our obesity epidemic -- people fill their plates, and plates have grown. Or maybe its just a symptom. In any case, the plates are smaller because its not the main course, and the size is a part of our signal not to eat too much at that course.

As to OP's point about putting out a lot of beverages, it depends on how big the table is, and how many people are there. Sure, if you have 30 people, you should have a few pitchers of water. But for a dozen or so people around a regular sized table?

amother

Puce

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:17 pm

You have a lot of good points. I would also add to keep challoh in the center of the table. There is one place I've been where they keep it at a corner by the head of the table, which makes it very uncomfortable asking for more especially if the people near it are heavily involved in conversation.

Petra

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:31 pm

I would not be annoyed or ask anything different from my host. We are always so happy to be invited, which isn't too often.

amother

Jetblack

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:31 pm

I really believe that there's no one "right" way to host. So long as you don't do anything hurtful to your guests, it's totally your prerogative to serve or run the meal exactly as you please. I've been a guest many times over the years, and certain meals have been more comfortable for me than others. But that's not the point. And I'm willing to bet that someone else might be more comfortable at exactly the opposite meals from me. Again, no "right" way. Ultimately, if you know your guests well enough, it's always nice to do things the way you know they like. We have certain repeat guests and I try to have their preferences in mind, even if they override my personal preferences sometimes. Otherwise, just be a decent person and it's all good.

nchr

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:34 pm

We serve buffet style so I'm going to keep these pointers in mind; however, not everyone serves that style. My parents, for example, serve restaurant style. You say what you'd like, get your portion and then you get the next course. No one has "seconds" in a restaurant unless they order it so we could ask for seconds, but there wasn't this concept of "the more the merrier" because it was more formal.

amother

Plum

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:51 pm

Another pointer is to serve appropriate portion sizes/ enough food per portion.
My sister was once at a meal where they were searved 1/2 a chicken cutlet per person and soup in tiny kiddy bowls. Not kidding. And these people are supposedly well off, I guess they're stingy.

ectomorph

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:56 pm

Op sounds a bit rigid to me. We used to host a lot and I would hate to be judged like that.

I expect dips to be small portions. Water is in one pitcher. Plates are small because that's how we do it. We don't demand anyone talk ever.

ectomorph

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 2:59 pm

When I lived by a family in Israel I was shocked how small portion sizes were. That could be cultural.

teachkids

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:00 pm

nchr wrote:

I know you said you don’t do it this way, but restaurant style is very hard for those of us with food allergies. I have an uncommon allergy that no one would think about, and rarely shows up in more than 1 dish, but is often in one. If you plate my food and that allergen is on it, I can eat maybe 5 bites from the opposite side is the plate.
Maybe plate just the main if you're worried about there not being enough, and let people take their own sides.

Re buffet: I've seen people put the sides/salads on the table after people take firsts so more people take seconds without having to awkwardly leave the table.

amother

Lavender

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:02 pm

Don't discuss sensitive topics unless guest raises it.

Don't put your kids on the spot for a dvar torah with guests over.
Host gives dvar torah if they need one at the table.

Don't draw out the meal past early mincha or bentch late in the afternoon without offering an early time to bentch and leave for guests.

Put salt out on both sides of table. Don't comment on guests using it.

Have lots of hand towels so no one has to dry their hands on a wet towel.

Don't twist yourself into a pretzel to impress guests. A regular family shabbos meal is just as nice. I never invite people I feel I need to impress.

Its exciting to finally have guests after being a guest, but people will like you for you, not your table.

nachlaot

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:10 pm

LittleMissMama wrote:

Once in a while we go somewhere (really this is a rare thing but it's happened a handful of times) where there's simply not enough food. Example: rice as the only starchy side but it's one smallish bowl for 15 plus people.

amother wrote:

Not enough food, to me, is a *major* problem, not a pet peeve like the plates not being big enough.

amother wrote:

In my circles, first course is challah, dips, salads (several big salads - green salad, kale salad, spinach salad, maybe pasta salad) and gefilte fish or salmon). This is the beginning of the meal where most of the divrei torah/kids parshah sheets are done, all the guests have a lot to discuss, everyone is hungry, and it takes probably the largest chunk timewise. And yes, people eat, and it's meant to be a full course. So we use full plates. I have been to houses who have this same setup but give small salad plates. One spoonful of lettuce salad and the plate is covered. This is not a situation where you're only supposed to take a teaspoonful. But it sounds like some people here have a very different setup, where it's just plain challah with a few dips and not a significant part of the meal. in that case, yes, a small plate is sufficient.

yes, this is what I'm talking about. a regular green salad (lettuce / kale / spinach / arugula) simply does not fit on a small plate, especially if there are other things being passed around.

SixOfWands wrote:

As to OP's point about putting out a lot of beverages, it depends on how big the table is, and how many people are there. Sure, if you have 30 people, you should have a few pitchers of water. But for a dozen or so people around a regular sized table?

we've been to plenty of meals where there are 8 people sitting around a regular sized table, and there's a small pitcher of water that is at the other end of the table -- and it's often empty and never refilled. a second pitcher costs a few bucks. even buying a bunch of soda stream bottles is cheap. your guests will be happy if you have water at each end of the table.

little neshamala wrote:

Oh! I just remembered. DONT ask your guest if they can give a dvar torah, or "just say over what the Rav said in shul, or what you learned in yeshiva this week". That is humiliating for anyone who just wasnt paying attention, dozing, absent, or just not comfortable giving it over. A simple "anyone have anything on the parsha theyd like to say, feel free to speak up" is more than enough.

good one. also along these lines, the d'var torah should be short and sweet. unless the speaker is a good speaker, is well prepared, etc., these inevitably drag on for way longer than they should and the speaker has lost most of the audience within a few minutes. I've never been at a shabbat table where I thought the host's d'var torah was too short!

pesek zman

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:10 pm

ectomorph wrote:

A lot rigid to me! When my guests leave all I want them to say and feel is that they had a good time. I hope my friends are more low maintenance than OP seems

nachlaot

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:19 pm

pesek zman wrote:

A lot rigid to me! When my guests leave all I want them to say and feel is that they had a good time. I hope my friends are more low maintenance than OP seems

guests have a good time if they're shown good hospitality, made to feel comfortable, and it seems like the hosts care about them. the "little things" are often what help make people feel happy and comfortable. it's basic psychology.

amother

Royalblue

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:27 pm

I'm an easy guest, whatever you do is fine. Only at my mil's table I feel very uncomfortable. Firstly, there are no drinks at the table until you ask for it , and then only one small bottle of seltzer (there's 4 servings in it! Come on!). The second thing is that she gets very insulted if you don't want to try her food. I eat almost everything she makes but I can't eat liver. Leave me alone about it! Don't ask and beg and insist. It's not nice.

amother

Plum

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:28 pm

Hosts, please teach you're kids social skills and not to ask inappropriate questions!!
I was once asked by an 8 year old boy why I have so many pimples!!

amother

Blonde

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:47 pm

nachlaot wrote:

We are families, not restaurants!! We’re not perfect, and I’m sorry if there’s not enough water on the table, but it is basic social skills to be able to ask for more water without being embarrassed.

I understand that you’re not asking to criticize, but I can see that you have been disappointed in some of your hosts. I honestly would take serious offense if I knew you were judging me on a few things I may have done “wrong” when I spent extra money, extra time, and extra thought on hosting!

33055

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:47 pm

I can't deal well with complaining guests. You don't like that I don't put out enough water, salt, towels or my plates are too small, don't come back. This isn't a restaurant. I never heard such ingratitude.

You don't like the host goes around and wants you to introduce yourself or wants to hear a bit about the pasha, don't come back.

You want the host to place the food on the table differently or not have as long a meal, don't come back.

The host is not obligated to change for you. You are in their house. Their rules. Their style.

nachlaot

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:52 pm

Squishy wrote:

I'm sorry, but you obviously skipped this part of the OP: "the purpose of my question isn't to criticize other hosts. it's to get ideas of little things that are important to guests, so we can improve our shabbats. "

Rachel Shira

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:52 pm

Don’t yell at your kids with guests over. We go to one family sometimes who does this and it makes me so uncomfortable. I’m talking constant raised voices and unnecessary criticism.
Ask couples if they want to sit next to each other (if it’s possible to arrange it like that).
Don’t comment on people’s food choices and what they are or aren’t eating. Just so wrong. As a guest this makes me feel awful.

trixx

Fri, Jan 11 2019, 3:52 pm

Yes and ugh to not enough water or how about, no water at all. Seltzer and juice are not drinks in my book.

No serving spoons! I don't get it. It's gross. Every single thing from tiny dip bowls to platters needs a serving utensil.