I am shocked (designs on kippot)

Clarissa

Thu, Dec 13 2007, 2:15 pm

I'm surprised that people are so shocked by the girls' kippot. If one is egalitarian in terms of observance (and many Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform Jews are), then one might want one's daughters to wear kippot, as well as the sons.

chavamom

Thu, Dec 13 2007, 2:59 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Wow, I guess I'm just naive. I never thought of that that they could be kippot for GIRLS Rolling Eyes

. But I guess that explains Dora's appearance too.

Defy, I didn't mean to be rude. I just meant that it was something that only someone in America would do, obviously not all you nice frum ladies.

Years ago I was walking behind someone on the Lower East Side in NYC. I'm looking at the person in front of me's kippah. Lovely white kippah with roses and Hebrew name that says "Miriam". It was a woman!

RedRuby

Thu, Dec 13 2007, 4:31 pm

On Yom Kippur this year, I sat next to a woman wearing a very feminine Talit and matching kipa. She feels spiritual wearing it on Yom Kippur. She davened and fasted all day and I wasn't bothered by it in the least.

She is conservative and actually teaches boys and girls "trop" for Bar/Bat Mitzvas. When she comes to our Chabad shul, she is very respectful of the way we do things, sits on the women's side, obviously doesn't "lain", but wants to hear my husband's sermon and learn more of the traditional way of Judaism.

If you've never seen a women wearing a kippa or talit, I guess it is surprising. But when you meet Jews of all stripes and flavors, you see all different types of dress.

louche

Thu, Dec 13 2007, 7:00 pm

Unfortunately there is no civil law preventing people from carrying their imagination to tasteless extremes that even cross the border into sacrilege. Have you never seen chanuka menorahs made to look like a row of scantily clad chorus dancers? never seen miniature tallis and kippah for people's dogs (Barf me out the door)? In my long-ago youth someone I knew made a kippah with the logo of a then-popular designer. hey, if you couldn't afford a Gucci suit, you could have a "Gucci" yarmulka. Ick.

I have no objection to decorated yarmulkas any more than I'd object to decorated challah covers--both can be magnificent works of the crocheter's or embroiderer's art; however, I am absolutely repelled by yarmulkas, or any other religious item for that matter, bearing "decorations" in the form of political slogans or symbols, commercial logos, or cartoon characters, tzniusdik or otherwise.

mimivan

Thu, Dec 13 2007, 7:36 pm

shalhevet wrote:

I am translating something about selling Judaica and I was googling to find the right word for that puffy paint used to decorate kippot (if anyone can tell me, I'll be eternally grateful Very Happy

) - it's called tzivei tullim in Hebrew.

Anyway, on my search I found this:
http://www.judaicaworldwide.co.....d=190

Are people serious that they would put Disney non-tzniyus princesses on their sons' heads? shock

Sorry, but it just reinforced all my stereotypes about America.

Yes...

At least the princesses were covered.The little mermaid is next Rolling Eyes

Regarding your comment about America, while I was not yet frum during the time I lived in England, I did notice the secular English are very into American Pop culture. Can you honestly say that a more "liberal" English Judaica store wouldn't carry these products?

mimivan

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 2:52 am

Kmelion: regarding your question about whether it is better to wear non-tznius kippot than none at all...I would ask a rav...

I noticed, for example, a guy walking into a falafel place on the 10th of Teves wearing a kippah. He ate something there. I was thinking he must be a very new BT and not know that it was a fast day or maybe he forgot. In any case, it got me thinking about how when people become frum, "dressing the part" is the first thing they do, when it probably should be the last thing they do...

This is getting off the subject of kippot for boys, but I often wonder about this, especially in E.Y. Alot of guys want to wear a kippah, but wouldn't it be better to hold off on the kippah until they are certain they will keep Shabbos, kosher, fast days?

Last edited by mimivan on Fri, Dec 14 2007, 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total

shalhevet

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 3:16 am

Kmelion wrote:

Not surprising, but no one who is repelled by this has bothered to answer my question.

I didn't bother to answer because I thought it was a stupid question. But I think the answer is it's better they don't wear a non-tzniyus kippa. But how non-tzniyus is non-tzniyus.... ? dunno.

Raisin

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 3:23 am

[quote="mimivan"]Kmelion: regarding your question about whether it is better to wear non-tznius kippot than none at all...I would ask a rav...it is a hard one

I noticed, for example, a guy walking into a falafel place on the 10th of Teves wearing a kippah. He ate something there. I was thinking he must be a very new BT and not know that it was a fast day or maybe he forgot. In any case, it got me thinking about how when people become frum, "dressing the part" is the first thing they do, when it probably should be the last thing they do...

Quote:

maybe he had diabetes, or was sick.

Kmelion, in your hypothetical situation, the person could turn the kippa inside out. Smile

mimivan

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 3:41 am

[quote="Raisin"]

mimivan wrote:

Kmelion: regarding your question about whether it is better to wear non-tznius kippot than none at all...I would ask a rav...it is a hard one

I noticed, for example, a guy walking into a falafel place on the 10th of Teves wearing a kippah. He ate something there. I was thinking he must be a very new BT and not know that it was a fast day or maybe he forgot. In any case, it got me thinking about how when people become frum, "dressing the part" is the first thing they do, when it probably should be the last thing they do...

Quote:

maybe he had diabetes, or was sick.

Kmelion, in your hypothetical situation, the person could turn the kippa inside out. Smile

I thought so too, but I also know that one shouldn't eat publicly if they are told they shouldn't have to fast.

BeershevaBubby

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 4:00 am

shalhevet wrote:

I didn't bother to answer because I thought it was a stupid question. But I think the answer is it's better they don't wear a non-tzniyus kippa. But how non-tzniyus is non-tzniyus.... ? dunno.

Well gee, thanks. Rolling Eyes

PinkandYellow

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 6:53 am

you are not allowed to do a mitzva through an aveira.
if the pictures are not tzniyus they fall under the arayos so the answer would be its better not to wear the kippa. on the other hand, if the person asking this shaila were the person wearing this yarmulka, I would hazard a guess that he\she would be told that in fact, the pictures are a beautification of this commandment and they're ok. Rolling Eyes

actually, I am shocked but thats bec I initially thought they were for a more modern orthodox market. I suppose that if they were for reform or conservative markets, they kind of fit in more.

amother

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 8:20 am

I am more shocked when frum women drive on Shabbos or steal and green fire and others tell me it is not nice to judge her...a sad joke!

Clarissa

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 8:25 am

So you get to post as amother and insult Greenfire by name? I suggest you get a conscience, edit out her screen name, and if you want to complain about women here, start your own thread. If you want to condemn others anonymously, how about not using any names at all?

When you edit out her name, I'll edit this as well.

Time to put on my "Girls Gone Wild" kippa.

MiracleMama

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 8:43 am

Clarissa wrote:

It's not shocking to me (though it does bother me), because I came from an environment where a woman wearing a kippa, tallis, even tefilin was not unusual. But I'm sure you can understand that this is a foreign concept to someone who grew up frum and never set foot in a Conservative "shul". (I don't know if it's done by women in Reform since from what I understand a lot of men don't even put on kippa, tallis, etc.)

Clarissa

Fri, Dec 14 2007, 9:08 am

MiracleMama wrote:

Do you always put "shul" in quotes?

I can understand that it's a foreign concept, but I am surprised that people are shocked. It's pretty well known that this is what happens in some of these groups, since they do egalitarian davening and all.