Please help me... I feel like I lost my child

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 9:58 pm

yksraya wrote:

It's not just the p*rn part. It's the whole description.

Unfortunately, the only times teens that young (as far as I know- and I know a lot) show such behavior, they come from dysfunctional homes or where abused in any which way. Or he went through trauma etc.

Your statement is painfully inaccurate and misinformed. And how on earth would you have any awareness of the p-rn viewing habits of teens??? Are you a computer technician for high schoolers?

Please don't tell mothers that if their children are struggling it is either because their home is terrible or some secret abuse occurred.

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 10:29 pm

20 years ago I discovered p*rn at age 13 and it was from curiosity. No one talked to me about s*x and the dictionary and encyclopedia which I tried first didn't give me a real picture of what it was. So along came the internet (well before there was any concept or awarness about filters and parental controls) and everything was at my finger tips. And let's be real - what was out there then was NOTHING compared to what's out there now.

So yes, it's "normal" for a kid that age to go look or to find it, but it is highly damaging and dangerous.

amother

Denim

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 10:48 pm

1. I am sorry you are going through this and I am sorry for your son's pain.
2. I suggest you connect with someone about radical acceptance. Ruchy Kovel is fantastic with this.
3. He needs to get to the root of his issue. There is a big spectrum of 'trauma.' it doesn't have to be relations abuse--it can be not having a solid group of friends, having a hospital visit, having an emotionally absent parent, being labeled as a 'difficult kid' his whole life etc. Whatever the root cause needs to be addressed and processed and changed.
4. No one can replace a mother. You pain is real. I strongly suggest therapy for YOU to make yourself strong enough to put your pain away when you are with him so you can give him presence and love.

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 10:51 pm

Hi, OP.
I'm going back to read other replies, but first I had to tell you I was in your shoes just 6 years ago. We went through gehenim with my son. The child services were involved. It took about 3-4 years for him to mature. Today I can trust him, I can ask him for help and at 19 he's a likable person. I must tell you that I dropped all expectations religious-wise. He never was mechalel shabbos bfarhesia, so we never discussed it, BUT the only thing I insist he do is come for meals on shabbos and Yom tov.
Keep strong OP. I wish you lots of patience.

amother

Seashell

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 10:59 pm

yksraya wrote:

My FIL repeated this anecdotal story often...

In the early part of the twentieth century it was very common for children to go OTD... one chosid came running to his Rebbe - "My son went crazy, he's eating chazer and dancing with women!", his Rebbe answered he's not crazy - crazy would be that he's eating women and dancing with chazers....

This boy is normal, not crazy. No reason to assume abuse.

yksraya

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 11:05 pm

amother wrote:

Have you even read the post you quoted? I explicitly said it's NOT abt the p*rn habit, but the whole description in the OP that I am referring to.

Instead of helping the OP think of what actually may be happening, you are encouraging her to close her eyes and ignore the warning signs.

amother

Brunette

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 11:06 pm

amother wrote:

Where is Ruchy Kovel and what is her certification?

amother

Copper

Sun, Mar 24 2019, 11:36 pm

yksraya wrote:

Usually not at 13-14. And the watching p*rn part, he is a little too young for that unless he got abused...

Well, you actually did say that.

And excluding that, all that is left from the OP's description is that her son wears a hoodie and curses. 13-14 is too young for that too? And the only explanation is either OP's home is dysfunctional or he has been abused?

I said nothing about op closing her eyes to helping her son. But it's not OK to tell a mother who is reaching out in pain over her child's behavior that either her home is messed up or someone molested him.

No other possibilities? Based on a paragraph's description of an unknown teen, it is not accurate or OK to make a diagnosis of abuse, or an indictment against the health of the home.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to target you, but as a parent of a child who struggled as a young teen, in the ABSENCE of abuse or a dysfunctional home, I feel that I need to speak up when this assertion is made. It is extremely common, extremely inaccurate, and only serves to cause further pain and marginalization to parents and children going through a traumatic time.

amother

Natural

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 5:03 am

OP, you have a long journey ahead of you. I have been going through a similar but different journey for about 3 years now. Its going to involve a lot of inner work, tefila and of course hishtadlus to help your son. Yes, there is a good chance there was some trauma which brought this about. You can only find that out if your son is open. Otherwise there is nothing to do but deal with the situation as it is now. Its all going to be o.k. one day, but maybe a different kind of o.k. than you had anticipated. Expectations change, Acceptance is crucial. There is way more to say than I can in this short post, but sending you hugs from me. Do you want to give his name for davening?

amother

Ivory

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 5:12 am

amother wrote:

There was [filth] going around my DHS class at that age. His older brother had some magazines hidden under the bed... It is naive to assume a 13/14 year old boy who knows what [filth] is has been abused.

I agree. In the old days before the Internet, I knew plenty of 13/14 year old boys who used to enjoy the thrill of getting hold of “top shelf” magazines. These were “nice” boys from “nice” homes.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 6:47 am

OP, please don't let the scare-mongers freak you out.

How is his relationship with his dad? Could he spend some one on one bonding time with him?

It sounds to me like your son is going through an identity crisis, which is totally normal at that age. Not all kids go through rebellion, but many do. He'd probably like to meet DD, who has one side of her head shaved, and the other dyed purple.

Please don't judge him harshly. Stay open to anything he says, and just be there for him. He's not doing this to hurt you. Right now I'll bet he doesn't even know who he is, or where he fits in in the world, so he's trying out different roles.

This is very important: LOOK FOR THE GOOD IN HIM, AND PRAISE IT! He wants to feel like he matters, that he isn't trash, and that you will love him no matter what.

BTW, wearing a hoodie counts as covering your head, so pretend it's a kippah. Payos grow back. Gel can be washed out. There are worse things in the world.

amother

Olive

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 7:22 am

yksraya wrote:

You really are assuming a lot and coming across as a know it all, in this thread, about a situation you know nothing about. 12 is not too young to be having relations biologically. That's hormones and not abuse. DH was having relations at that age, and so was another guy I knew.

OP my advice is going to be different, but it worked for us. Think if it as another point of view. Decide what you can live with and what you can't. And be strong about what you can't. Keep communication open.

We could accept the chup or whatever they call that awful haircut. Affectionately we teased our son about it. I couldn't accept e-cigarettes in my house. Where does he get the money for it anyway? Cursing is also unacceptable. When my son wanted to cut his peyos, I trimmed them. They were still there but not beyond his earlobes. I bought him gel to hold them in place. My son hated white shirts. I said I would talk to Totty about it. He didn't want to hurt Totty. I took him shopping and got him weekend clothes including hoodies.

We always gave him lots of love and affection. Even when he pushed away, I told him that he is doing his job to mature, and I doing mine to love him and let him go.

In addition to love and affection, we held strong boundaries. 13 is not too old to enforce house rules. I see those that didn't have strong boundaries had teen boys just rebelling against the looser boundaries.

BH I am always there to hear what my teens feel is unfair. BH they tell me who of their friends is doing what. I have learned not to react if I hear about so and so drinking or breaking Shabbos or dating a girl.

I also talk to my kids about their future. They see certain friends dropping out of HS. I talk to those friends when they come around the house in a non- judgemental way out if concern for them.

Also, don't give your son lots of spending money. I see boys get into trouble with money. I give my kids credit cards.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 7:29 am

amother wrote:

Amother Olive, I wish you had posted this under your screen name. You sound like an amazing mother, and I'd love to know who you are.

amother

Pewter

Mon, Mar 25 2019, 10:53 am

BTDT.

OP, its been many years since my saga began, and I hope your saga ends better than where were at, ups and downs, but more downs than ups.

Another ugly thing Ive had to deal with is judgmentalism from friends and neighbors (and some relatives who distance themselves), who if they have the "perfect" frum children, say (Ive heard back) that parents must have messed up, which hurts like knives in the heart, as much as I try not to be bothered by what others think.

Now after years of totally immersing myself and putting in years of efforts and love and kindness that has not yet borne fruit, I cant any more. I do a lot of pretending with the child that Im content with things the way they are.

Now that my focus on the child is no longer taking over my life, because I feel I already gave it all I had, its the outsiders uppity superiority and judgmentalism that seriously hurts me more and more. No Im not imagining it.

Hatzlacha. Many have happy endings.