Should I force my 12 year old to come to therapy?

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:26 am

studying_torah wrote:

There's a lot of anger because it seems like you're defending your ds' behavior & dismissing the old abuse.
You might not mean to, but that's what it sounds like.

I think your older child needs help processing the abuse; and also agree that she likely still doesn't feel safe with your son (even though he's much better now). And yes by now she's frustrated and hurt enough that she will he nasty to him. Not nice maybe, but understandable.

I also think you & your dh need a better way to discipline your son and also teach him self regulation to calm his reactions. But also to realize what is a big deal and what isn't.
It isn't reasonable to flip out over smells , no matter how sensitive he might be. That's not the way the world works.

I think you need to leave your daughter alone as far as therapy, unless she wants to work out her feelings. It should not be about how to be nice to her brother- at this stage.
She needs to be heard and understood.

A lot of what my son did “wasnt reasonable” and still isnt! You need to find the way to their challenges- its not easy.

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:26 am

He graduated from the school that offered him floor time. He used to having an amazing OT, but she stopped working in my neighborhood. There is currently only one OT I know of who works in my neighborhood, and she is mediocre. Sad

The agency that provides all of his services only has one OT. But the other therapists there are amazing, so I am not really looking to switch.

Dd also goes there for speech therapy and PT, and I think it's great for her. She loves going there.

amother

Babyblue

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:29 am

hatzlocha

I'm sure you are doing your best and beyond. sounds like a very challenging situation.

DD is not a cog in DS treatment plan. If you want a healthier more productive household I would also find a way that works for her to address her point of view before she really hits the teen years and you may find yourself with even more going on. To achieve the goal you want of calmer DS and everyone getting along better.

Obviously you as the parent can prioritize SN child's needs. She as a 12 year old like most might have a tough time understanding that all the time plus doing it herself (her eating habits you mention) and would have her own experience of being hit/traumatized

(funny to think of the threads that talk about making sure other kids' needs are not neglected during kallah focus and chasunah preps -- I think all the more so when a SN or ill child or anything or anyone in the family is demanding a huge chunk of the energy)

perhaps DS can stay out of the kitchen or something so its not all on her and she is not always being asked to accommodate to his needs

perhaps you can find a way to clean up immediately or hire more help or something that also accommodates for DD to not perfectly address SNS sensitivities or put out a gel air freshener to absorb the smells -- I would not let this become another tug of war for whose "side" you may be perceived to be on (rightly or wrongly)
you say she is not 'responsible"...responsible for what? for not cleaning up immediately each time and needing to be reminded? sometimes our actions have reasons beyond the pshat too.

I'm sure its tough (theres a lot of work/resesrach done on "good" kids who have sibs with needs and the like)

also while you know your situation best it can be hard to be objective when in it -- also while understandable your goals and priorities may diverge a bit from DD's developmental needs -- is she the oldest? You and therapist have understandably been focused on helping DS, might be helpful for third party who is operating from either DDs pov or on behalf of the whole family system.

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:30 am

amother wrote:

Can you fin a private OT? A private floortime therapist? I understand its costly but there was a time that we had a top OT come to our house on a consultation basis kind of: he showed me what to do and came sporadic so it kept the cost down. The same can be done for floortime where the goal is for the parent to take over
Edited: I see you write of only one OT in your area- its worth the travel

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:34 am

studying_torah wrote:

I do not defend ds when he misbehaves. And it's nice to say that we need to learn new techniques. I agree! Please tell me new techniques we haven't tried. We've done the nurtured heart approach, the approach from The Explosive Child, I've read books on sensory issues, I came of with different charts and contests. Some backfired big time, and only one was a real success. I still use the one technique I have found that works, though he finished his chart and we haven't started a new one yet.

One thing that I have come to realize is that everyone is right: I should stop trying to get her to be nicer to ds- I didn't realize how hurt she is by what has happened in the past. I guess I have seen ds as a kid who was struggling and needed help while she has always seen him as the abusive brother who hurts her.

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:38 am

aricelli wrote:

It's worth it, but we can't make time or money appear where there is none. Sad

We already travel to this therapist on Sundays and there is simply no time the other days between school, work and the kids' other therapies. 4 of my kids get a lot of therapy, and it takes up a large chunk of every day except Sundays when we go to the other therapist.

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:40 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

If he can't be trusted not to hurt people, you might need to hire a one on one to stay with him from the time he wakes up, to the time he goes to bed.

I've known other families who have had kids on the spectrum who were violent, and some of them have had to resort to this. Keeping the rest of your family safe is a full time job.

As I said, he currently hurts people about once every 2 weeks. I don't think he needs a one on one at this point, though I did try to get him one when he was younger and was never successful.

aricelli

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:41 am

amother wrote:

It's worth it, but we can't make time or money appear where there is none. Sad

I hear you. This therapist doesnt seem to be working for you- maybe you can reevaluate?

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:45 am

amother wrote:

perhaps DS can stay out of the kitchen or something so its not all on her and she is not always being asked to accommodate to his needs

perhaps you can find a way to clean up immediately or hire more help or something that also accommodates for DD to not perfectly address SNS sensitivities or put out a gel air freshener to absorb the smells -- I would not let this become another tug of war for whose "side" you may be perceived to be on (rightly or wrongly)
you say she is not 'responsible"...responsible for what? for not cleaning up immediately each time and needing to be reminded? sometimes our actions have reasons beyond the pshat too.

I'm sure its tough (theres a lot of work/resesrach done on "good" kids who have sibs with needs and the like)

also while you know your situation best it can be hard to be objective when in it -- also while understandable your goals and priorities may diverge a bit from DD's developmental needs -- is she the oldest? You and therapist have understandably been focused on helping DS, might be helpful for third party who is operating from either DDs pov or on behalf of the whole family system.

We do not have room to eat int he kitchen. Dd eats int he living room/dinig room, and I can't expect ds to stay out of there.

As dd's mother as well as ds's, my goal is not to get a cleaning lady to make the problem disappear. My goal is to teach my dd to clean up after she eats, and to teach ds not to have a freak attack every time she leaves ketchup or pickles on the table. He has to know how to deal with being in the same room as ketchup, or else he will be handicapped for life.

amother

Cobalt

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:46 am

I think you are doing a lot. From reading the posts I think if you let your sons therapist that your daughter will not be coming again and that you won’t ask her to, that she will have to figure out how to help you without her. Once her going to his therapist is out of the question it will help you take the other steps to get her the help that would benefit her the best. You have got some good advice here and hopefully you will find success.
Hatzlacha Rabo

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 10:59 am

Im seeing the need for a lot of parenting work here. Your husband yelling at your son when he hits is truly ineffective, and just adds to the tension in the family for DD.
There needs to be clear consequences for your son when he is violent, and it needs to be done in a calm, regulated way.

Also, an adult can sit between the two of them in the car so DS doesn't have access to DD to hit her. Prevention can really help DD feel safer and feel that her needs are being prioritized

amother

Olive

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 11:00 am

To be honest, I don't know what to tell you. Just that I totally get the dynamics and wish you much siyata dishmaya and hatzlacha.
I have a child with sensory issues and smell is really hard for him. He's non-violent, and will leave the room. But I get your son's agitation to smells.
I also had an abusive sibling growing up. We're both grown and married and are cordial to each other, but I could never be close with her. We live in different countries, so we rarely see or speak to each other. She was very verbally abusive to everyone in the family, me in particular. And physically abusive on occasion. I am a few years younger than her and was terrified of her. I hated staying home alone with her and would find excuses to be somewhere else if other siblings or my parents weren't home. I rarely brought friends home as I was scared she'd have a blow up when they were there. There was more than one occasion that I just couldn't deal with it and packed my bags to run away from home. I won't say I was an angel and I'm sure I triggered some of her "attacks", but her reactions were beyond the trigger.
My parents tried family therapy once and it was a disaster. She basically said they'd have to put her in the car kicking and screaming if they wanted her to go again. So they never did.
I probably would have been too uncomfortable to speak to a therapist, though it probably would have helped. I did find a teacher when I was in high school. It took me weeks to bring up the courage to tell her what I was going through and ask for help. She was so caring and helped me get through the next few years until my older sister got married and I was finally able to blossom.
If your daughter won't go to a therapist, maybe you can find someone else who you both trust to talk to. Sometimes just talking it out and knowing she has a support system and someone to talk to when she's going through a rough patch can really help.

amother

Jade

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 11:05 am

amother wrote:

Thank you. This post was comforting to me. I feel like someone understands and survived a similar experience to what we're going through.

ora_43

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:13 pm

amother wrote:

Wow. People are very angry on behalf of my dd.

When we told dd that she could go to the relative, we specified that that is if she is home. Dd also brought a long a book to read in the waiting room in case the relative was not home, and she was fine with that.

WADR OP this is a really important part that you left out.

Also the fact that by "hurting her" you meant things on the level of hair pulling, not, like, kicking her hard enough to leave a bruise, or leaving bloody scratches on her, or any of the far more disturbing things that physical abuse could mean. (Not that hair pulling is OK, but it's much closer to normal-if-unhealthy sibling fighting than to terrifying abuse.)

So with new information - I think you can keep bringing up the idea of therapy once every few weeks, or even offer a reward if she goes. (Coercing someone to go is never helpful; therapy requires buy-in). Maybe if you promise her that she won't be expected to talk about her feelings unless/until she wants to. A good therapist should be able to work with that.

But do be sure that the therapy is going to be about her and her feelings, not just how she can be a better sister to her brother who can't help himself (because even if he really is doing very well considering his difficulties, a kid her age can't be expected to sympathize)(also teasing siblings is normal 12-year-old brattiness).

The fact that simply being asked about her feelings led to that kind of breakdown does make it seem like there's a lot going on. If she won't do therapy, can you or your dh spend more one-on-one time with her? or find some special activity for her? Not saying that you don't do those things already.

heidi

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 12:55 pm

OP, your understanding of your special needs son's issues sounds really thorough and well researched.
Unfortunately, it sounds like your daughter feels like she is less understood.
If a child that is not special needs pulls his sibling's hair once he would be removed from the situation until he understood that this behavior was unacceptable. If your son is unfortunately incapable of understanding that concept he cannot be allowed near your daughter unsupervised.
Ever.
Sit between them in the car.
Take separate cars.
Don't leave them alone together.
Your daughter sounds like a typical 12 year old sister, getting irked by her brother looking over her shoulder and leaving the ketchup on the table. These "offenses" do not warrant getting hit or yelled at by her brother.
If he is that voluble you might want to consider the one on one aide that others have mentioned.

studying_torah

Mon, Apr 01 2019, 3:48 pm

Copper amother, that bothered me too.

Ora I think the issue is compounded by the fact that the brother was abusive to the older child in the past and this child hasn't gotten over that.
Either because her feelings were not dealt with , or because it was brushed off as he can't control himself, or because some ppl have a harder time letting go, or whatever other reason.
So while right now it's "just" hair pulling, it seems like in the past it was more serious.

Btw, OP- you said your dd eats in the dining room & you don't want to kick your son out. Well you might just have to until he can learn to control himself more.

I wonder if he experiences any real consequences for his behavior? Maybe he needs a bit of a tougher approach for a bit.
I don't know your son or his level of understanding, but sometimes kids just need to have a firmer no nonsense approach taken towards their behaviors. Especially when it hurts another person.