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What would you answer to an anti vaxxer who...
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:29 am
Sends you this...

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-b.....ansmission

Investigating Viruses in Cells Used to Make Vaccines; and Evaluating the Potential Threat Posed by Transmission of Viruses to Humans

General Overview
The emergence of pathogenic virus infections like influenza and HIV have created an urgent need for new vaccines.

Virus-based vaccines are made in living cells (cell substrates). Some manufacturers are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines. The continual growth of cell lines ensures that there is a consistent supply of the same cells that can yield high quantities of the vaccine.

In some cases the cell lines that are used might be tumorigenic, that is, they form tumors when injected into rodents. Some of these tumor-forming cell lines may contain cancer-causing viruses that are not actively reproducing. Such viruses are hard to detect using standard methods. These latent, or "quiet," viruses pose a potential threat, since they might become active under vaccine manufacturing conditions. Therefore, to ensure the safety of vaccines, our laboratory is investigating ways to activate latent viruses in cell lines and to detect the activated viruses, as well as other unknown viruses, using new technologies. We will then adapt our findings to detect viruses in the same types of cell substrates that are used to produce vaccines. We are also trying to identify specific biological processes that reflect virus activity.

These methods will enable FDA scientists to help manufacturers to determine whether their specific cell substrate is safe to use for vaccine production. The methods our laboratory are developing and testing will help to ensure the production of safe and effective vaccines in two ways: 1) FDA will be able to develop testing guidelines for manufacturers who use new cell substrates for producing vaccines; and 2) FDA will publish the new methods it develops in peer-reviewed scientific journals, thus making them readily accessible to all manufacturers.

We are also evaluating the risk of retrovirus infections in humans. (Retroviruses are RNA viruses that use an enzyme called reverse transcriptase (RT) to replicate; RNA is the de-coded form of DNA). Simian foamy virus (SFV) can be transmitted from nonhuman primates (e.g., monkeys) to humans. Although there is no evidence that SFV causes disease, the virus can remain in a lifelong quiet state in the DNA after infection. Moreover, two individuals in Africa were recently found to be infected with both HIV-1 and SFV. Therefore, it is important to determine if SFV poses a threat to human health and to understand how the virus spreads in order to create strategies for controlling human infections. Such work will also help FDA to develop a new policy regarding blood donation by individuals working with nonhuman primates and implementing formal safety guidelines for people working with SFV-infected animals. We are also investigating the consequences of dual SFV and HIV-1 infection in the monkey model.


Scientific Overview
Detection of latent viruses in cell substrates for vaccine safety. The urgent demand for vaccines against emerging diseases has necessitated the use of novel cell substrates. These include tumorigenic cells such as MDCK and CHO cells (for influenza virus vaccines), 293 and PER.C6 cells (for adenovirus-vectored HIV-1 and other vaccines), and tumor-derived cells such as HeLa cells (for HIV-1 vaccines).

The use of tumorigenic and tumor-derived cells is a major safety concern due to the potential presence of viruses such as retroviruses and oncogenic DNA viruses that could be associated with tumorigencity, Therefore, detection of persistent, latent DNA viruses, and endogenous retroviruses in vaccine cell substrates is important for vaccine safety, particularly in the development of live viral vaccines, where there are no or minimal virus inactivation and removal steps during vaccine manufacturing.

Chemical induction is a rigorous method for evaluating the presence of endogenous retroviruses as well as some latent DNA viruses that have the potential to become active and produce infectious virus. This approach has been extensively used for mouse cells. We have optimized virus induction conditions in mouse cells using a standardized, highly sensitive, single-tube fluorescent PCR enhanced reverse transcriptase (STF-PERT) assay. We have further determined optimum conditions for activating latent DNA virus from a human cell line. We have extended the assay to develop a stepwise approach to induce and detect endogenous retroviruses and latent DNA viruses during evaluation of cell substrates for vaccine safety.

The chemical induction algorithm developed using these positive control cell lines can be used to evaluate the safety of novel vaccine cell substrates for new vaccines. We are now investigating emerging technologies for broad virus detection to identify novel, induced and other unknown viruses. Additionally, we are investigating potential biomarkers for virus induction

In vitro and in vivo investigations to address retrovirus concerns in biologics. Simian foamy viruses (SFVs) are highly prevalent in all nonhuman primates (NHPs) and can infect humans by cross-species transmission. Although there is no evidence yet of disease with SFV, infectious virus persists in the host DNA. Therefore, we are trying to understand SFV latency and activation and factors involved in virus transmission, which will be important for managing SFV infections in humans.

We are also investigating potential interactions of SFV and SIV in the monkey model to predict the outcome of SFV and HIV-1 dual-infections in human cases, reported in Africa. Furthermore, our blood transfusion studies in monkeys regarding the risk of SFV transmission from infected blood donors to recipients will contribute to blood donation policy-making decisions.
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:30 am
I told her that many meds have horrible side effects listed on them. She said that those are to take a risk of during and here it's prevention which is very different
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mig100




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:38 am
I didnt read the whole post- though if its anti-vax "research" I wouldnt answer- I have better things to do.

I loove having intelectual, interesting debates and discussions. I have zero interest in debating and discussing with irrrational people.

if there is anything I've learned from all these threads - its how irrational anti-vaxers are.

anti- vaxers dont bother responding- id rather discuss something more productive.
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southernbubby




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:43 am
Preventing an illness is preferred to trying to treat the illness. We have safety rules to prevent injuries and hygiene and vaccines to prevent infectious diseases.

Many substances that we encounter in our daily lives contain carcinogens. This may even be true of food, personal care products and supplements sold in health food stores. Too much sun exposure can even be carcinogenic.
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:44 am
It's from the FDA website. Is that considered anti vax research? She is very open and nice to talk to. I'm not turned off from her like from other anti vaxxers
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:45 am
southernbubby wrote:
Preventing an illness is preferred to trying to treat the illness. We have safety rules to prevent injuries and hygiene and vaccines to prevent infectious diseases.

Many substances that we encounter in our daily lives contain carcinogens. This may even be true of food, personal care products and supplements sold in health food stores. Too much sun exposure can even be carcinogenic.


Thanks. That's such a well articulated answer
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amother




Burgundy


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 11:58 am
nothing
I dont engage in debate with anti vaxxers

they won't listen
and I am not interested in listening to nonsense
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yerushamama




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 12:00 pm
If I understood this article correctly it seems that they are researching new ways to produce vaccines, not investigating those already in use. If so, isn't their willingness to investigate a positive? How would it indicate that vaccines are unsafe?
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 6:56 pm
yerushamama wrote:
If I understood this article correctly it seems that they are researching new ways to produce vaccines, not investigating those already in use. If so, isn't their willingness to investigate a positive? How would it indicate that vaccines are unsafe?


Quote from FDA website

In some cases the cell lines that are used might be tumorigenic, that is, they form tumors when injected into rodents. Some of these tumor-forming cell lines may contain cancer-causing viruses that are not actively reproducing. Such viruses are hard to detect using standard methods. These latent, or "quiet," viruses pose a potential threat, since they might become active under vaccine manufacturing conditions.

It says that vaccines can cause cancer
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amother




Slateblue


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 7:03 pm
Am Gold: YOU seem to be THAT inti-vaxer friend. Nice try for coming into through the back door!!!
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youngishbear




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 7:09 pm
AmGold wrote:
Quote from FDA website

In some cases the cell lines that are used might be tumorigenic, that is, they form tumors when injected into rodents. Some of these tumor-forming cell lines may contain cancer-causing viruses that are not actively reproducing. Such viruses are hard to detect using standard methods. These latent, or "quiet," viruses pose a potential threat, since they might become active under vaccine manufacturing conditions.

It says that vaccines can cause cancer


It says that tumors form in some mice after being injected, which could be from viruses that we can't detect and that don't reproduce. It seems pretty theoretical. The fact that they're researching this concern and not sweeping it under the rug gives me even more hope for the future of medicine.
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amother




Tan


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 7:18 pm
AmGold wrote:
Sends you this...

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-b.....ansmission

Investigating Viruses in Cells Used to Make Vaccines; and Evaluating the Potential Threat Posed by Transmission of Viruses to Humans

General Overview
The emergence of pathogenic virus infections like influenza and HIV have created an urgent need for new vaccines.

Virus-based vaccines are made in living cells (cell substrates). Some manufacturers are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines. The continual growth of cell lines ensures that there is a consistent supply of the same cells that can yield high quantities of the vaccine.

In some cases the cell lines that are used might be tumorigenic, that is, they form tumors when injected into rodents. Some of these tumor-forming cell lines may contain cancer-causing viruses that are not actively reproducing. Such viruses are hard to detect using standard methods. These latent, or "quiet," viruses pose a potential threat, since they might become active under vaccine manufacturing conditions. Therefore, to ensure the safety of vaccines, our laboratory is investigating ways to activate latent viruses in cell lines and to detect the activated viruses, as well as other unknown viruses, using new technologies. We will then adapt our findings to detect viruses in the same types of cell substrates that are used to produce vaccines. We are also trying to identify specific biological processes that reflect virus activity.

These methods will enable FDA scientists to help manufacturers to determine whether their specific cell substrate is safe to use for vaccine production. The methods our laboratory are developing and testing will help to ensure the production of safe and effective vaccines in two ways: 1) FDA will be able to develop testing guidelines for manufacturers who use new cell substrates for producing vaccines; and 2) FDA will publish the new methods it develops in peer-reviewed scientific journals, thus making them readily accessible to all manufacturers.

We are also evaluating the risk of retrovirus infections in humans. (Retroviruses are RNA viruses that use an enzyme called reverse transcriptase (RT) to replicate; RNA is the de-coded form of DNA). Simian foamy virus (SFV) can be transmitted from nonhuman primates (e.g., monkeys) to humans. Although there is no evidence that SFV causes disease, the virus can remain in a lifelong quiet state in the DNA after infection. Moreover, two individuals in Africa were recently found to be infected with both HIV-1 and SFV. Therefore, it is important to determine if SFV poses a threat to human health and to understand how the virus spreads in order to create strategies for controlling human infections. Such work will also help FDA to develop a new policy regarding blood donation by individuals working with nonhuman primates and implementing formal safety guidelines for people working with SFV-infected animals. We are also investigating the consequences of dual SFV and HIV-1 infection in the monkey model.


Scientific Overview
Detection of latent viruses in cell substrates for vaccine safety. The urgent demand for vaccines against emerging diseases has necessitated the use of novel cell substrates. These include tumorigenic cells such as MDCK and CHO cells (for influenza virus vaccines), 293 and PER.C6 cells (for adenovirus-vectored HIV-1 and other vaccines), and tumor-derived cells such as HeLa cells (for HIV-1 vaccines).

The use of tumorigenic and tumor-derived cells is a major safety concern due to the potential presence of viruses such as retroviruses and oncogenic DNA viruses that could be associated with tumorigencity, Therefore, detection of persistent, latent DNA viruses, and endogenous retroviruses in vaccine cell substrates is important for vaccine safety, particularly in the development of live viral vaccines, where there are no or minimal virus inactivation and removal steps during vaccine manufacturing.

Chemical induction is a rigorous method for evaluating the presence of endogenous retroviruses as well as some latent DNA viruses that have the potential to become active and produce infectious virus. This approach has been extensively used for mouse cells. We have optimized virus induction conditions in mouse cells using a standardized, highly sensitive, single-tube fluorescent PCR enhanced reverse transcriptase (STF-PERT) assay. We have further determined optimum conditions for activating latent DNA virus from a human cell line. We have extended the assay to develop a stepwise approach to induce and detect endogenous retroviruses and latent DNA viruses during evaluation of cell substrates for vaccine safety.

The chemical induction algorithm developed using these positive control cell lines can be used to evaluate the safety of novel vaccine cell substrates for new vaccines. We are now investigating emerging technologies for broad virus detection to identify novel, induced and other unknown viruses. Additionally, we are investigating potential biomarkers for virus induction

In vitro and in vivo investigations to address retrovirus concerns in biologics. Simian foamy viruses (SFVs) are highly prevalent in all nonhuman primates (NHPs) and can infect humans by cross-species transmission. Although there is no evidence yet of disease with SFV, infectious virus persists in the host DNA. Therefore, we are trying to understand SFV latency and activation and factors involved in virus transmission, which will be important for managing SFV infections in humans.

We are also investigating potential interactions of SFV and SIV in the monkey model to predict the outcome of SFV and HIV-1 dual-infections in human cases, reported in Africa. Furthermore, our blood transfusion studies in monkeys regarding the risk of SFV transmission from infected blood donors to recipients will contribute to blood donation policy-making decisions.


It does not say that vaccines cause cancer. It says they are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines.....meaning that these are not yet used for vaccines because they are still being investigated. However they have found that some of these cell lined may be carcinogenic so they are working on ways to make sure they are properly investigated and/or re-engineered so they don't cause cancer. Where do you see that they are already using these cell lines to produce vaccines?
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ra_mom




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 7:34 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
It does not say that vaccines cause cancer. It says they are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines.....meaning that these are not yet used for vaccines because they are still being investigated. However they have found that some of these cell lined may be carcinogenic so they are working on ways to make sure they are properly investigated and/or re-engineered so they don't cause cancer. Where do you see that they are already using these cell lines to produce vaccines?

This.
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crust




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 8:44 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
Am Gold: YOU seem to be THAT inti-vaxer friend. Nice try for coming into through the back door!!!


She might be the one having access and trying to clarify things for someone else and for herself as well.

At least...
1. She's not anonymous.
2. There is a duscussion.
3. She's not promoting anything. She's simply bringing pieces of info that she has a hard time understanding.

Give credit where credit is due.
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 9:09 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
It does not say that vaccines cause cancer. It says they are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines.....meaning that these are not yet used for vaccines because they are still being investigated. However they have found that some of these cell lined may be carcinogenic so they are working on ways to make sure they are properly investigated and/or re-engineered so they don't cause cancer. Where do you see that they are already using these cell lines to produce vaccines?

I don't know. I was just quoting my friend
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 9:11 pm
amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:
Am Gold: YOU seem to be THAT inti-vaxer friend. Nice try for coming into through the back door!!!

Cracks me up. I'm not insulted just because I see this type of reaction is the trend on this site.
Are you the door guard?
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AmGold




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 9:13 pm
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
It does not say that vaccines cause cancer. It says they are investigating the use of new cell lines to make vaccines.....meaning that these are not yet used for vaccines because they are still being investigated. However they have found that some of these cell lined may be carcinogenic so they are working on ways to make sure they are properly investigated and/or re-engineered so they don't cause cancer. Where do you see that they are already using these cell lines to produce vaccines?

They are using these vaccines now but are trying to find better cell lines is what I understood
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skee




 
 
 


Post  Thu, May 09 2019, 9:56 pm
AmGold wrote:
They are using these vaccines now but are trying to find better cell lines is what I understood


It was not 100% clear in the article, but it seems to be saying that they are investigating it BEFORE actually using those cells in vaccines to make sure they are safe. The article is describing new methods they developed to help them accurately evaluate the safety.
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eschaya




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 10 2019, 10:15 am
Let's read the article over carefully and determine exactly what is being researched and developed here.

1. In order to make new vaccines for viral diseases (such as the flu or HIV), the virus has to be grown in continuously replicating cell-lines
2. There exists the concern that some of these cell-lines could cause tumor growth
3. This potentially could be due to undetected viruses (in those cell-lines, not the virus they aim to replicate for the purpose of the vaccine) that become activated during the vaccine-development process
NOTE: this is conjecture here; it has not been seen to happen but scientists want to be scrupulously sure it can't, and therefore...
4. These scientists are developing ways to activate and then detect potential carcinogenic viruses in cell-lines
5. And then publish these methods
6. So that any future labs/vaccine-manufacturers will be able to test their own cell-lines to make sure they do not harbor any un-activated viruses that could potentially become activated during the vaccine production process
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naturalmom5




 
 
 


Post  Fri, May 10 2019, 10:34 am
One thing this thread makes abundantly clear

Any antivaxxer that wants to get an exemption
Must take a very rigorous reading comprehension exam
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