You are not on your level yet?

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 11:15 am

icebreaker wrote:

People have told me this and I just told them, “Nope, I’m where I need to be!”

Conversation ends after that.

Fine answer.
OTOH, aren't we constantly growing?
It's not just the visible actions, it's the inner growth. Our internal growing which impacts our relationships with others and Hashem.

giselle

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 11:27 am

amother [ Red ] wrote:

[u]

I think the bolded is tricky because it seems hashem wants different things from different communities which is somewhat difficult to accept. If you're a chassidish woman then hashem doesn't want you driving. He also doesn't want you to stop having babies unless you get permission from your rav. If you're a modern woman then hashem is ok with you going to movies and wearing a skirt a little above the knee. He's also ok with you not having children until you finish graduate school at age 30. After that, he's fine with you having 3 kids so you can afford to live in a nice house. No need to ask a rav for permission.

I disagree with this. So if someone no longer wants to be chassidish, then she’s doing something wrong?

PinkFridge

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 11:36 am

singleagain wrote:

The thing with internal growth... Is that it is internal .. not something that can be seen by someone else

Yes. And it's also something that we should keep private. But sometimes, especially if it helps stem an uncomfortable conversation, we can bring it up. And we have to know for ourselves that we've never quite arrived. (Of course we should endorse ourselves for the results of hard work and convictions. But we can't be complacent.)

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 11:49 am

giselle wrote:

I disagree with this. So if someone no longer wants to be chassidish, then she’s doing something wrong?

Lets take it a step further: this women never chose to be chassidish! Her great great great did! I believe that every person should choose what path is right for them

icebreaker

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:01 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Fine answer.
OTOH, aren't we constantly growing?
It's not just the visible actions, it's the inner growth. Our internal growing which impacts our relationships with others and Hashem.

Of course. I just prefer not to talk about my "level" with people who say things like "you are not on your level yet." IME, those are people who think they know you better than you know yourself and while they may be well-intentioned, I stay away from talking about my or anyone else's frumkeit irl.

champagne

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:24 pm

giselle wrote:

I disagree with this. So if someone no longer wants to be chassidish, then she’s doing something wrong?

If a person is doing something for herself and not for Hashem, then yes, she’s doing something that’s not in line with what Hashem wants.

We do “wrong” things all the time. Because we’re human, and it’s really, really hard to always do what Hashem wants. So yes, we have to get comfortable with the fact that we’re not perfect.

If someone leaves a Chassidish sect because she feels it’s not getting her closer to Hashem and enhancing her Judaism, yes she’s making the right decision. But if she’s doing it because she just wants to chill and Hashem probably doesn’t really care, then no, it’s not a righteous move. Should we judge that person? Of course not. We shouldn’t judge anyone. Should she hate herself? No, of course not. But she should learn to live with the fact that it’s not the most correct decision she could have made.

imasinger

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:26 pm

To me, the phrase "on that level" addresses the difference between wanting to take on something further, and not being ready for it/interested in it.

As a BT, I first heard it from a Chabad rebbetzin I was working with who cautioned me to "take baby steps", and told me that she personally wasn't on the level to give up brushing her hair (I assume with a soft brush) on Shabbos.

Knowing that even this rebbetzin had areas she was not ready to tackle yet really helped me slow down and take on only what I was ready for, without feeling guilty.

If I say it, or if someone says it to me, I can let it go by with a "yep, guess not."

In general, I'll focus effort on bein adam lachaveiro.

But maybe some of those commenting to you, OP, aren't on that level yet.

pizza4

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:27 pm

In HS we were taught that there are levels of frumkeit with head coverings. A tichel is on a higher level than a wig.
I wear what I'm comfortable with at this point and I'm not striving to be more frum in that area.
With shaving- that is only if it is a minhag in your family/ community. If its something you really want to do even if it isn't done in your community you should speak to your lor to find out if you should do that... it's a minhag. Not a level of frumkeit.
Really, nobody can decide who is more holy! That's for Hashem.
Also being that you're a BT, keep in mind how what you take on may affect your family.
It's weird for someone to comment "you aren't on that level yet."
It's wonderful that you're discussing things with your rebetzin.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:31 pm

champagne wrote:

Well if she’s in a chassidic sect and feeling bitter about not being able to “chill” then perhaps she’s better off leaving. Once she feels a bit more at ease maybe she can work on her love of judaism

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:38 pm

I'm going to address a few comments up thread, but I'm too tired right now to quote all of them.

Halachah is NOT different for different groups. Halacha is halacha, period. Minhagim and chumrot are different for different groups. If you connect with a specific group, then you take on the extras. If you don't connect with that group, it doesn't make you less frum. A "just plain frum" Modern Orthodox person who keeps the mitzvot is just as frum as a chassidish lady who shaves her head, maybe even more!

The madregot you should be working on is middos. If you are always working on improving middos, avoiding lashon hara, and practicing Ahavas Isroel, you can't go wrong. You do not need extra thick stockings for that.

I strongly recommend you find ONE group that resonates with you, and a rav who you can connect with on both a halachic and emotional level. You need consistent guidance from a single source, so you're not getting confused with conflicting opinions.

Growing as a BT or ger is a difficult path, don't make it harder for yourself than it needs to be. Every traveler needs a reliable road map.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:52 pm

champagne wrote:

If someone was born to a specific group- any group - jpf, yeshivish or whatever- do they need to stay there forever?! Whats the difference why they want to leave. If another group resonates with them more- go for it! We were born jews and will remain jews even if switch out. I dont believe the same holds true for the group we were born into

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:56 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

This is not a question of halacha. It's more a question of your social circles and family. Will they freak out and disown you? Will it upset your DH or your kid's education? Will the neighbors look at you weird? Are you OK with being judged by other people?

If your friends and family support you, and everything is good, then I don't think Hashem is going to get angry if you switch from Belz to Yeshivish. It's people you have to watch out for.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 12:58 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Yeah- its always “people!”

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 1:00 pm

amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:

Yeah- its always “people!”

But it's a very serious thing to take under consideration. Don't underestimate the impact that a hashkafa change can make in your life, and the lives of people in your family. It has to be done with agreement and mutual respect, if done at all.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 1:02 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Sure I get you. But for people who are so unhappy where they are its the right thing to do in the long run.

amother

Forestgreen

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 1:09 pm

pizza4 wrote:

Did they teach you a source for that?

I was taught that all hair must be covered. But I didn't learn that one type of covering is a higher level than another.

Regular BY.

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Jul 02 2019, 1:09 pm

And a message for all of us who have kids: lets respect our childrens differences and choices that may be different than ours. My daughter chose to go more to the right (which believe me can be even harder to swallow!) and it took me a while to be reallyok with that. But I saw that this way is her derech. It pulled her since she was little. She found a wonderful man to marry- also a bit more right than his family. They are the cutest happiest couple who really understands each others!