So sad about psak I just got. Pls offer chizuk UPDATE

amother

Puce

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:33 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

He said I can do it for kibbud aim. But the name of the baby isnt named for his grandfather. Hes saying im choosing a name I like and pretending its for the grandfather. I don't need to do that. I rather choose a name from the Torah that has a meaning I like etc...

I don't understand. The rav said you're not naming for the grandfather bec you're only using 2 out of 3 of that grandfather's names? How is that not naming for the grandfather? A name means whatever you want it to mean.

What about everyone who translated their grandparent's Yiddish name into Hebrew? We did that for 2 of our dc, and have told them the stories about their namesakes. It's an important part of their identity now.

amother

Puce

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Wow. I have been going in circles with this thread. I give up Can't Believe It

Are you trying to say that your rav said there's some type of a spiritual connection between dc and namesake if the dc is "properly" named after the namesake? But that wouldn't be the case if the entire identical name isn't given?

I never heard of this. Afaik the connection is what you make of it. You perpetuate the niftar's memory bec everyone knows who Avromi was named after, and Avromi learns about his namesake's life and middos.

Ema of 5

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:48 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Im not going to pick one okay name and one horrible name just to make people feel good... it feels very different and spiritual when you know your child is connected to his name sake. Otherwise it just feel empty and dumb.

My husband and I had grandfathers who share one name, but both have different other names. (Does that make sense? They each had two names, one the same as each other, and one different) we used the one common name, and didn’t add a second name. My child is still named for two great grandfathers, even though he only has one name, and doesn’t have the full name of either one. My child is absolutely connected to his great grandfathers.

tulips12

Mon, Jul 08 2019, 11:55 pm

In certain circles it's not accepted that you mix and match names or translate names. Either you are named after someone or you aren't. You can be named a different name that relates to your relative but you aren't named the same as them.
Some people don't combine names of two people. It's not that you are named after both. You are named after non of them.
Also if someone died young or had a difficult life some add on a name and for the same reason some prefer not to because it isn't the exact name of the person you are naming after.
Op can still do whatever she want but if this is what she believes then it's not naming after her grandfather. It's just a name she can give.

singleagain

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 12:00 am

tulips12 wrote:

But isn't it all just customs and minhag?

I think that's what's confusing ppl, OP said she got a psak. But how is this halacha? At the very most it's strong strong custom, not law.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 12:27 am

singleagain wrote:

But isn't it all just customs and minhag?

I think that's what's confusing ppl, OP said she got a psak. But how is this halacha? At the very most it's strong strong custom, not law.

I think this means that the name won't have meaning for the neshamah. I once read an article on this topic, and the consensus seems to be that only if you call the child by its full name is it considered "naming" after the niftar.

OP can name her child whatever she wants, it just won't be considered naming after this person, according to the Rav she asked. Truthfully, my understanding is that it has to be the complete, full name, and this is just a kulah.

OP, there's one thing I don't understand- why did you ask the Rav to begin with? We've named our children all kinds of names and we didn't ask... were considered yeshivish. Just wondering. (Oh, I asked about the name Sholom, because I heard that you can't say it in the bathroom, I was told it's not a problem).

amother

Orange

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 1:20 am

Do you have to use the name each time you call the kid. Could you use the whole name but only use the whole thing sometimes?
Also even if you are not naming after someone, I'd the name is going to make so many people happy and it will be a reminder to you of the person, isn't it worth using it.

amother

Brunette

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 1:36 am

Op wishing you an easy stress free pregnancy. Please try not to stress about this though! We had a name picked out for my firstborn son years before he was born Smile

we even wrote it on birth certificate, but then his bris was delayed & fell out day of my mil gf who raised her & she asked us to add the name (he was being named for mil father who was niftar young & we chose the added name based on many different calculations, incidentally he was born the night of his yartzeit!) suffice it to say we were in a big bind & we really didnt want this combo bec of many reasons, one of 5hem being a tongue twister... After thinking it through & putting the added name at the beginning we gave the name. Fast forward and it’s a couple of yrs later with bh our lechtiga yingela who technically has 4 names. We usually call him by his first & last name (last one is a type like ber from dov ber) s/t just 1st or last. My mil makes sure to call him by his full name , bubby calls him by her 1st husband name and everyone is happy.

Sorry for long megilla, but just wanted to share that I technically, kinda understand where you’re coming from... May it all go smoothly and beh it will all fall into place.
Bshua tova!

ora_43

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 2:35 am

I don't understand how these minhagim go together. If only the complete, full name counts, then why would it be a problem that 1 of the 3 names overlaps with a living grandparent's name? It's not the living grandparent's complete, full name.

In any case.

OP, I think what's confusing here is that you started off by saying that giving this name would have made people happy. If the goal is to make people happy, what does it matter if it's "really" naming after the deceased?

Try to focus on what you'll still have, no matter what the name (or, for that matter, the gender of the baby). Your child will still be a direct descendant of the grandfather. They can still feel connected to the grandfather by hearing stories about him. The good things that baby (and you, and other relatives) do will still bring zchut to the grandfather.

And if you want (and if baby is a boy), you can still give part of grandfather's name and have it be "in honor of" rather than "named after," and that will probably make relatives happy like you wanted and create a special bond for your child. It won't be exactly what you wanted, but that doesn't make it worthless.

And remember it's all min hashamayim. If your child was meant to be fully named for that grandparent, then you wouldn't be in this situation of clashing minhagim. Since you are, apparently that wasn't meant to be the name.

amother

Sienna

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 5:19 am

I always find giving a name stressful-even after choosing a name, it still takes me time to adjust to calling a baby by their name rather than baby.
One of the grandfathers on dh's side had a really unusual name and so none of the grandchildren have chosen to name for him, except for one where they used the name as a second name, and added another name which is the name they actually use.
There's also another grandmother who had 2 names but one was anglicized and no one knows the real hebrew name, so each grandchild chose a different hebrew name due to different considerations, like we had a living relative on the other side with one name option, but we all feel like we named for this grandmother.
I think it's a really emotional decision and one that is hard to do before the child is born. If you feel you are naming for this grandfather and everyone else knows it, does it matter the exact name?
We usually just write a list of possible names that we both agree on and pick the one we feel is best once the child is born.

amother

Rose

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 5:57 am

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

Good job minimizing a very legitimate concern.

Being pregnant with my 6th boy I knew the entire pregnancy that he will be named after our Rabbi who passed away last year then 3 days before my baby was born my father passed away......

allthingsblue

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 7:34 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Were the youngest of a small family and there likely won't be a lot of children born this generation after this. I thought it would make some people very happy to give this name and the biblical name was a nice one so I was good with that. Just hard when u get fixated on an idea and then it goes out the window...

Why is your idea out the window?
It sounds like the name would make people happy, so you can surely use he name. Even if kabbalistically or halachically it's not the same name and not connected with the namesake, you will make people happy as well as keep alive the memory of this person. Sounds beautiful enough to me.
For all our kids we used partial or combined names. We made relatives happy and we kept alive the memory of these deceased friends and relatives; that's the main thing. I have never regretted it.

ShishKabob

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 10:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Wow. I have been going in circles with this thread. I give up Can't Believe It

OP, relax. I totally understand the part of being upset when you were so set on something. The posters here can't relate really, because you are probably chassidish, hungarian and they are not. They can't even fathom what the issue is here.

You got a psak on a minhag and yes it's a psak nontheless.

Take the time to be sad about it and then take the time to accept upon yourself the ratzon Hashem. If Hashem wills it different then it has to be different.

May you have an easy birth and a healthy child and menuchas hanefesh.
Bhatzlocha

Sunny Days

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 11:00 am

ShishKabob wrote:

I think what’s throwing so many people off is the fact that baby wasn’t born yet...

ShishKabob

Tue, Jul 09 2019, 11:03 am

gamzehyaavor wrote:

I think what’s throwing so many people off is the fact that baby wasn’t born yet...

I hear you. The truth is that we are usually set with a name way before the baby is born. I personally like it better. Like that all of the back and forth is settled and doesn't have to be dealt with in addition to all those out of whack hormones.