Down Syndrome in certain Chasidish Groups

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SuperWify

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 8:36 pm

I know many years ago there was unfortunately no help or understanding for children with conditions like DS and other noticeable disabilities. Many times these kids were r”l literally locked away in ayslums. The BBC show Call the Midwife has a few episodes on this actually.

B”H we have come such a far way. I grew up volunteering at The Center in Lakewood and could see firsthand the support parents here get and understanding.

This week however, I got a copy of Down Syndrome Among Us and reading it left me so sad. It seems like the editor had such a hard time raising her own special child in a community with virtually no support or resources. She had worked tirelessly to change that. She also wrote how her husband goes to convince Rabbis (her actually working was Rebbes not sure if she meant a literal Rebbe) to allow and encourage parents to raise their DS children. I also read a story of a woman who was forced to give her child up by well meaning individuals Sad

I remember reading a thread here about the fact that a certain Rebbe did not let his chassidim raise their DS kids.

No I know it’s only certain chassidim this is not a chassidish bash. I want to understand.

I’m not judging the parent who has no choice but what of the parent who wants to keep their precious child? Are these children not given to their specific parents to be raised by Hashem Himself? Can a rebbe know better? Do these tayerah neshamos need to be thrown into the foster system because they were born different?

Is there really so much stigma in our communities nowadays?

Makes me so sad Sad

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:02 pm

Even the ones that want to keep their DS children are told no (in those specific chassidish communities). Yes, it's sad.

Are there those that keep them anyway? Possibly, but they're few and far between.

I personally know a few people who wanted to keep their DS children but were told to give the child away, so they did.

I don't think it's something I will ever understand.

amother

Bisque

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:09 pm

It's not something I can ever understand, but I do know someone who did give away her down syndrome child. She told me she is happy she did not have to raise him, as she had 17 children. However, she is so on top of his care. She goes to visit him all the time in his foster home. She told me it was hard for her to give him up, but she understands why the rebbe tells them to do it.

On the other hand, my brother-in-law has downs syndrome. My husband's family is so proud of him, and so into him, and my husband always says he was the cutest baby. They were so proud to bring him out always and my in laws were never ever embarrassed at all bh, and neither are any of us.

SuperWify

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:13 pm

So here’s my main question- is it in one specific community or across the Chasidish velt in general?

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:14 pm

It's certain chassidish groups.

For example, new square and vitznitz are two I am aware of.

ectomorph

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:16 pm

Only in certain situations. It's not everyone. And people aren't forced to.
And others are encouraged to adopt them. Women in Monroe for example. Makes no sense to me but to each their own.

SuperWify

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:16 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

It's certain chassidish groups.

For example, new square and vitznitz are two I am aware of.

Thank you. I’m glad it’s only hopefully two. I was reading the magazine this shabbos and crying for the mothers and children.

Wife1

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:23 pm

Yes a lot of people in Monroe take is special needs children

malki2

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:23 pm

I’m sorry, but I think that’s horrible. I thought that as Jews we believe that all neshamos are special. And especially DS and other special children are supposed to have extra holy neshamos. So if Hashem gives a family one of those children, how could they give it away???

SuperWify

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:32 pm

malki2 wrote:

Hey I’m really not looking to judge the parents. That was not my point. I’m questioning the fact that some Rabbis and Rebbes advise their followers to give away such children.

amother

cornflower

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:36 pm

[quote="malki2"]I’m sorry, but I think that’s horrible. I thought that as Jews we believe that all neshamos are special. And especially DS and other special children are supposed to have extra holy neshamos. So if Hashem gives a family one of those children, how could they give it away???[/quote

This is so judgemental. Do you have any children with special needs? Do you understand what is involved in raising a child with special needs?

I do not think that the rebbi should make a blanket rule whether families can or cannot keep their child. But I do believe that it is up to the parents to make the choice.

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:36 pm

ectomorph wrote:

Only in certain situations. It's not everyone. And people aren't forced to.
And others are encouraged to adopt them. Women in Monroe for example. Makes no sense to me but to each their own.

No, they're not forced with a gun to their head but there is extreme pressure. I know more than one family who didn't want to give away their DS child but felt they had to.

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:37 pm

SuperWify wrote:

Thank you. I’m glad it’s only hopefully two. I was reading the magazine this shabbos and crying for the mothers and children.

There may be more, I don't know. I just know for sure these 2.

Mama Bear

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:37 pm

I'm sorry, but I'm coming from the other side of this. The parents who made the decision to place their special needs children do NOT need to read all the judgement and negativity towards them, esp in the DS magazine. Do you think they made this decision easily? Do you think they don't lay in bed at night crying about it, missing their child, feeling guilty, but knowing that their family would fall apart if they hadn't taken this step? Even with support, even with resources, not every woman, not every family, is equipped for it. The 3 families I know that had to make this decision, were women in their 40s who had 10+ children. The child would never get what he or she needed in such an environment and are a lot better off where they are. And this doesnt mean the parents are just going on their flippant way and not caring about , thinking about, worrying about their child all the time. Those decisions are not made lightly.

The ppl I'm thinking of are Satmar ppl, not Skver. I dont think Satmar has a blanket 'shitta' to place all DS babies; every family makes their own decision after careful deliberation and consideration. Family dynamics are different, and sometimes the husband is not supportive, sometimes the mom cannot handle it emotionally. Or it's a very busy family and the DS child will not get what he or she needs at home. It's an individual case by case basis.

The last thing such parents need is to read other people condemning them. They feel bad about it as it is in the first place.

amother

Firebrick

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:39 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

The point is, we're not condemning the families AT ALL. My anger is directed straight to the Rebbe's who instruct them to give their kids away. My heart bleeds for the parents.

I personally know 2 families where the DS child was their first child -they had no other children yet- and they had to give away their child. One from viznitz and one from new square.

amother

Purple

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:49 pm

Is there a blanket rule regarding not keeping DS children or is an individual situation evaluated.

I am curious because obviously some individual situations would have difficulties while others wouldn't. I would imagine that whatever community there is would be some families who couldn't deal with it. Of course outside the religious world, the incidence of DS births is far lower so it's moot since those who wouldn't or couldn't deal generally would have an abortion.

If there is a blanket rule what is the justification in terms of other adoptive parents being better suited?

Librarian

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:50 pm

Someone from one of the chassidus mentioned in these posts told me that their Rebbe advises anyone who comes to ASK if they should give their DS child to do so. Because the people who don't want to, don't come to ask. I don't know if this is true, that is why I am not saying which chassidus specifically.

amother

Gray

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:51 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

And I Know in viznitz where the rabbi told the mom to keep the child cause she felt that’s what she wanted to.
I don’t think I’m any place there’s a blanket statement maybe they are advised to do a certain way and don’t always follow.
I do know families that kept a special needs child and the family fell apart due to it. The rabbis aren’t stupid

Mama Bear

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:56 pm

There isnt a blanket rule.
However if someone is already going to their Rebbe to ask that already means that theyre not feeling capable of doing it. If they were, they wouldnt even ask the question. They are usually coming to their Rebbe for reassurance that they are doing the right thing.

By condemning and judging I didnt mean all of you in the thread, but the constant letters in the Down Syndrome magazine. I hope those women dont' read the magazine. They don't need the guilt on top of the pain they're feeling.

I can tell you this as a mother of a child who isnt living at home (again, my situaton is different, my son was 8 and our family was in complete chaos bc of him): the mothers whose children are placed are in a ton of emotional pain. They don't have it any easier than the mothers who kept their children. They did it for their spouses, their families, and their own mental health.

malki2

Sat, Jan 11 2020, 9:57 pm

SuperWify wrote:

Hey I’m really not looking to judge the parents. That was not my point. I’m questioning the fact that some Rabbis and Rebbes advise their followers to give away such children.

I wasn’t judging the parents either. I was upset about the advice to give the kids away.

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