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What actually is the difference between PANDAS and ASD?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 8:43 pm
People keep saying one looks exactly the same as the other. And they need the same treatment. So what is difference then? And how do we know that PANDAS is actually caused by a virus and it's not just that the person is actually ASD but happened to also get a virus?
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amother




Hotpink
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 9:02 pm
From what I heard pandas comes on suddenly. Autism is not a sudden occurrence of high strep levels.
My asd son was displaying behavioral issues so dr thouvht it may be pandas. Doses of antibiotics didnt help so we attributed to the fact that the behavioral issues are from his asd rsther than pandas.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 9:12 pm
I'm going through this myself right now. Who said they need the same treatment? They by far do not
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 9:15 pm
OP is probably confused because some ppl in the frum community will say a child has PANDAS instead of other conditions such as ASD. The same is also true with lyme and or mono for adults who has depression, etc. This is what a psychiatrist told me who treats very very many frum patients.
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amother




Red
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 9:17 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
OP is probably confused because some ppl in the frum community will say a child has PANDAS instead of other conditions such as ASD. The same is also true with lyme and or mono for adults who has depression, etc. This is what a psychiatrist told me who treats very very many frum patients.


people do that??? Why? My child is said to have pandas. Most People have no idea what we are dealing with on a day to day basis. I feel like I would get so much more understanding and chizuk if it were autism.
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amother




Lavender
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 9:34 pm
amother [ Red ] wrote:
people do that??? Why? My child is said to have pandas. Most People have no idea what we are dealing with on a day to day basis. I feel like I would get so much more understanding and chizuk if it were autism.


According to this psychiatrist, yes, people do that to avoid the stigma of other illnesses. That's also why it looks like there is so much PANDAS, lyme, etc. in the frum community when compared to others. Also, a huge amount of people will test positive for mono anti bodies (because most people have it in childhood), some of the lyme titers (because they test for inflammation and are not necessarily lyme specific) and strep antibodies (if recently exposed) so many people want to hang on to that versus a diagnosis of ASD or depression etc. Sometimes after several years they finally get help once they seek the right treatment for the actual condition. However, some people really do have PANDAS (like your son) and I'm sorry you're going through that.
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ladYdI




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Feb 08 2020, 9:40 pm
Is there an actual way to test for pandas? Is there ever a clear diagnosis?
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:42 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
According to this psychiatrist, yes, people do that to avoid the stigma of other illnesses. That's also why it looks like there is so much PANDAS, lyme, etc. in the frum community when compared to others. Also, a huge amount of people will test positive for mono anti bodies (because most people have it in childhood), some of the lyme titers (because they test for inflammation and are not necessarily lyme specific) and strep antibodies (if recently exposed) so many people want to hang on to that versus a diagnosis of ASD or depression etc. Sometimes after several years they finally get help once they seek the right treatment for the actual condition. However, some people really do have PANDAS (like your son) and I'm sorry you're going through that.
This psychiatrist is terrified that everyone will realize that their mental health issues really have a biological basis and they will go out of business.

If a person has high antibodies to any infection, be it strep, ebv, lyme, etc, and ZERO concerning symptoms, then it makes sense to say the antibodies mean past exposure or past infection. But if this person has elevated antibodies + psych symptoms or neuro symptoms or really any other concerning symptoms, there is a ton of scientific literature pointing to the fact that this indicates chronic infection and deducing post-infectious encephalopathy is not at all an absurd conclusion. Couple that with the fact that many people's symptoms disappear with treatment of the infections/inflammation, and you pretty much have your proof.

Every day there is new literature coming out on the infectious/inflammatory/autoimmune etiology of psychiatric disease, yet mainstream psychiatry keeps ignoring the mounting evidence. Honestly, it's baffling.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:48 pm
OP, ASD and PANDAS are not mutually exclusive. One is describing a set of symptoms, one is discussing a cause. ASD always has a cause. Sometimes it's pandas or pans misdiagnosed as asd, sometimes its pandas plus lots of other stuff, sometimes it's just the other stuff.
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:11 pm
amother [ Lavender ] wrote:
According to this psychiatrist, yes, people do that to avoid the stigma of other illnesses. That's also why it looks like there is so much PANDAS, lyme, etc. in the frum community when compared to others. Also, a huge amount of people will test positive for mono anti bodies (because most people have it in childhood), some of the lyme titers (because they test for inflammation and are not necessarily lyme specific) and strep antibodies (if recently exposed) so many people want to hang on to that versus a diagnosis of ASD or depression etc. Sometimes after several years they finally get help once they seek the right treatment for the actual condition. However, some people really do have PANDAS (like your son) and I'm sorry you're going through that.

I guess he's afraid he'll be out of a job one day. There is plenty of research indicating that elevated antibodies with neuropsych symptoms and no signs of illness is not a mental health issue. I'm sorry you've been led to believe otherwise. There IS treatment available. ASD is simply a description of a group of symptoms that are commonly found together in children with no known reason. it can be several things. Sometimes it's PANS/PANDAS sometimes it's mold, sometimes it's parasites. I'm sure there are other causes too, these are just the first to come to mind. Have you ever researched the gut brain connection? Autoimmunity?
There's a lot of new research out there. Challenge yourself to be open minded and learn some new things. You might be surprised.
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:11 pm
.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:39 pm
I'm so confused.
What are the symptoms of pandas?
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amother




Scarlet
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:22 pm
My ds has ASD and pandas.

He has always had ASD. He has a hard time socially because of it, and he has sensory issues. There is no medical treatment I know of, but he gets therapy.

When he suddenly began to have extreme anxiety and was using the bathroom every 5 minutes, he was tested for PANDAs. Yes, it is diagnosed by a blood test. He was put on antibiotics and his symptoms disappeared within a week. His ASD is still there and still untreatable.
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:53 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
My ds has ASD and pandas.

He has always had ASD. He has a hard time socially because of it, and he has sensory issues. There is no medical treatment I know of, but he gets therapy.

When he suddenly began to have extreme anxiety and was using the bathroom every 5 minutes, he was tested for PANDAs. Yes, it is diagnosed by a blood test. He was put on antibiotics and his symptoms disappeared within a week. His ASD is still there and still untreatable.


...or the cause has not yet been identified. Like I mentioned above, there are other contributing factors. SOme of them are mold, parasites, heavy metal toxicity, leaky gut.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:16 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:
My ds has ASD and pandas.

He has always had ASD. He has a hard time socially because of it, and he has sensory issues. There is no medical treatment I know of, but he gets therapy.

When he suddenly began to have extreme anxiety and was using the bathroom every 5 minutes, he was tested for PANDAs. Yes, it is diagnosed by a blood test. He was put on antibiotics and his symptoms disappeared within a week. His ASD is still there and still untreatable.
Lots of parents are working with drs in the know to heal their kids' autism on a biological-medical level.

It's not a coincidence that your child with asd also had pandas. Asd and pandas share a lot of the same root causes, and their is a much higher incidence of pandas in the asd population than in the general population.

There are plenty of resources available if this is a route you are interested in going down.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:49 pm
So people who were diagnosed with ASD totally had their symptoms disappear?
I can't even imagine my son any different than who he is.
Also people say autism and ADD go together.
I have add and so does he(and probably more of my kids do)
I have questions about the idea that different things cause autism.
How is it that people with high functioning autism are extremely smart in many ways?
If something "caused" the autism wouldnt there not be an improvement in other areas?
Not looking to criticize anyone who feels this way or believes there's proof.
And please no hugs and no bashing me either.....it's not always easy.
I love my son dearly and yes we are going through challenges but he's a cute smart boy.
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amother




Wheat
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:56 pm
There is a huge overlap with most ASD kids having some form of pandas/pans If accurate testing is done . basically Chronic brain inflammation or “brain on fire “ in addition to a garbage dump of previous infections , etc . The question is what makes some kids vulnerable ... many kids with two MTHFR defects will likely develop both of these . These kids can’t detoxify well . Something is causing blood brain barrier to not work and it’s downhill from there . The kids that are less “ sick” looked more normal only having adhd or ocd , odd , irritability , as a flare up . It’s a shame medical establishment is very behind in this research but more ppl are realizing mthfr defect . Some are wise to slow down vaccination but it’s Russian roulette . More kids today being diagnosed with severe mood disorders and ocd etc .
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:02 pm
MTHFR
Blood brain barrier
Can you please explain these things?
If I can get answers to the many questions I have and possibly solutions that would be very helpful.
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:07 pm
Someone posted these on a pandas whatsapp group im a part of (heya everyone!). Check out these two. In this order.
https://www.suzannegazdamd.com.....andas

https://jbhandleyblog.com/home.....DN8Ew

And this
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/he.....6ftXA
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:07 pm
Double
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