Publicizing my yeshua

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:05 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So your issue is with the number of days and publicizing it after the fact? Because lighting a candle and asking Hashem for help in the merit of a tzaddik are definitely well established and brought down by numerous seforim. They are standard when visiting a kever or on the yahrtzeit of the tzaddik.

Yes. The fact that this particular segula copies the exact form of a well-known, earlier Christian ritual is deeply problematic.

Lighting candles is an ancient practice, found in many cultures. Lighting candles for a specific number of days, reciting a specific formula and then publicizing the yeshua is a specifically Christian folk ritual that predates this Jewish one. We should be very wary of such things.

amother

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:11 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

There is no specific formula to recite.

It's interesting that 40 days is a widely used number for segulos in general. I found this article which discusses the reason: https://www.hidabroot.com/arti.....ws-40

Really, there is nothing about this segulah that marks it as different from any other accepted practice in Judaism, except maybe publicizing the yeshua.

I did seek halachic guidance before undertaking this.

imasoftov

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 12:27 pm

amother [ Black ] wrote:

Who is Rabbi Menachem Mendel ben Yosef?

pbandjelly wrote:

Does anyone know?

R Menachem Mendel of Rimanov's father was named Yosef. Sometimes this segulah circulates with "ben Yosef" and sometimes with "of Rimanov" and sometimes both. There's also a version that says "every Tuesday", not for 40 days (or maybe that's 40 consecutive Tuesdays?). I don't think I've seen a source for this yet, so it's unclear if
1) whoever is named requested this himself, or the practice was started by someone else
2) likewise, did the practice originate with the requirement to publicize success or was that later
3) the original version named the Rebbe of Rimanov or someone else with the same or similar name and it was later assumed to be the Rimanover.
4) the popularity of this segulah stems from its success rate or from the requirement that successes be publicized causes people to hear only of successes

It is possible that the "every Tuesday" part comes from a different segulah (for parnassah) also attributed to the Rimanover which is performed on the Tuesday of Parashat Beshalach. That one's connection to the Rimanover is also unclear. Well a different segulah unless one of these two segulot is the origin of the other ...

Here's an image that I've seen in a number of places, with every Tuesday, and no requirement to publicize.

amother

Scarlet

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 1:46 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

rabbi menachem mendel miriminav. after reading here about a lady doing it to get pregnant who was alao helped, I also did it together with my husband. the last day was erev jom kippur when I ovulated. im currently almost 24weeks pregnant with twins!!!! don't undereastimate the koach of a tsadik.

Beshaa tova, wishing you a healthy pregnancy and birth, and all good things.

I truly hope you meant to say "don't underestimate the koach of Hashem."

amother

Periwinkle

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 6:05 pm

octopus wrote:

Judaism does not require an intermediary. This is a christian/ pagan (avoda zara)concept. When people go to kivrei tzadikim, they are still davening to Hashem. Not to the tzaddik.

I clearly remember learning that one can daven for a yoshua in zchus of davening at a holy place/kever. Or one can daven and ask the tsadik who's kever one is at to go ask hashem for u Joshua for us. Both is possible. It's clearly said that hashem will take us out of golus because of the tfillos of Rachel umeini. Tsadikim can get protectia in shamayim. And we can ask them. Just like you would go ask a live tsadik to daven for you or for a bracha.

octopus

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 8:31 pm

TheNeutralOne wrote:

ויאמינו בד׳ ובמשה עבדו.

Wow. What a distortion. That is about emunas chachamim. Not that both are equals to daven to.

How do you think the generations from Adam to noach came to idol worship? It started because they felt they needed intermediaries. They knew at that point that the sun and moon and stars were only intermediaries. But as generations went on, the knowledge was forgotten and these things were worshipped in it of themselves.
The idea of davening at kivrei tzaddikim well I don't really go. Women in my family don't really go to cemeteries. But when people daven at kivrei tzaddikim, be careful not to daven to tzaddik. Its a makom kedusha, so it has a greater effect on your davening. The tzaddik can intervene on your behalf because you are crying your heart out to Hashem at their kever. But you are not davening to the tzaddik. Do you understand the fine line???!

amother

Sienna

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 9:03 pm

octopus wrote:

Yes, we all understand. I think everyone on here davens only to Hashem and never to a man. But we can ask Hashem to allow the tzadik to intervene for us, or that his zechuyos stand for us. On Rosh Hashana we call on the zchus of Avraham Avinu and the akeida, and tomorrow we will daven in the zchus of Mordechai and Esther....and so on and so forth...

octopus

Mon, Mar 09 2020, 12:21 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

What you write is correct regarding zechyos. That is not what other posters were writing. What they were writing was kefira.

imorethanamother

Mon, Mar 09 2020, 2:32 pm

octopus wrote:

I agree with you. I also think this whole "lighting a candle for forty days, at a specific time, and then doing XYZ" is suspect here. For people that do this sort of thing, I want to ask: Why don't you take on a difficult mitzvah or some other chumrah instead for that amount of time and ask for help from Hashem? Is it because you think it won't "work"? Is it because you think this R' Riminov has special powers? And if so, what is his special power? Why does he have this special power to make lots of miracles for you? Why not light a candle to Eliyahu Hanavi?
Or to Moshe? Or Rochel Imainu? Is it because you think traditional davening and mitzvos aren't something you can try?

I personally wouldn't ever do it, because it seems very much avodah zara to me, but if an outside orthodox Rabbi tells you to do it, then by all means. I just find the whole thing baffling to my misnaged brain. And when you pray by a kever, it's just a holy spot to daven. It's not that you're asking the dead to do something for you. You might say that in the zechus that they did XYZ, insert request here.

lilies

Mon, Mar 09 2020, 2:38 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

I don't know much about this specific segula, but then how do you reconcile the concept of segulos , in general?
Do you think ruby stones for something with pregnancy, or ayin hora pouring lead, and stuff like that are all avodah zara?

Side note, if something seems very much like avodah zara to you, doesn't actually make it avodah zara. You may just be missing some pertinent info. Why not ask you lor what he thinks?

octopus

Mon, Mar 09 2020, 3:40 pm

lilies wrote:

Many of us have consulted our LOR.

TheNeutralOne

Mon, Mar 09 2020, 3:52 pm

octopus wrote:

Honey, nobody that I know davens to a tzaddik. I’m not sure where you extrapolated that from.

My point was simply that we are humble enough to understand that those greater than us can intercede for us by Hashem, the only Source.