Have we lost our collective minds?

amother

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:24 pm

amother [ Pearl ] wrote:

Your comparisons make no sense. Driving is not an illness. It is a positive thing, and it SAVES lives. I wonder how many more would die without motor vehicle transportation?

The flu in a bad year? You mean like the Spanish flu in 1918? When, yes, they shut everything down?

How many people died from the flu today in New York city? (The flu didn't go away, it's still here)
How many people died from coronavirus today in New York city?

How quickly is the death rate doubling? Look it up. Does that happen with the flu??

SMH.

Driving has positives and negatives. How many lives do we lose to pollution due to excessive car usage? Thats even beyond just people who die from getting hit by a car. Do you know how many lives we'll lose from locking down our economy? Also a lot. Drowning causes 360,000 deaths a year and we don't stop swimming. What positives does swimming have that make the hundreds of thousands deaths it causes worth it?

keym

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:27 pm

You ask a good question, but it's surrounded by a lot of assumptions and selfishness.
What makes Corona different than other stuff is that currently we have no effective medication, no vaccine at all even partially effective, and not enough medical equipment. Additionally there is still so much we don't know about CORVID-19 like is there immunity, how long until not contagious anymore etc.
When we have all these things, then yes, we will continue life, despite the fact that many people will still die.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

How will we lose 100 live a day in one city (and this is before the peak) from putting the economy on hold for a few months?

amother

Pewter

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:29 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don’t really agree with your premise, but I’m also concerned about the financial fallout. There were so many suicides during the Great Depression.

amother

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:36 pm

keym wrote:

I can see why you think I'm coming off as selfish but I'm sick and tired of all the ranting in the news and on imamother that not even one dead is acceptable. it causes hysteria and is patently false when you think about how our society views risk. Maybe if people were being honest and saying yes, people will die but here's what we're doing and here's when we're going to have to open up society and expose ourself to some risk, I'd be more okay with being locked-down.

Also we definitely can't wait until we have ALL of those things aka a vaccine. 18 months in lockdown will definitely cause more death and destruction than the virus ever could

amother

Pink

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:38 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

No. I'm asking whats the number

We as a society have decided that 1.25 million dead is an acceptable number in order to protect our privilege to drive. If driving killed 1 billion people, we wouldn't drive. Obviously everything that could potentially cause death has a threshold number where people are willing to trade the deaths for the convenience that the activity affords us.

The flu in a bad year kills 61,000 people. We don't shut down schools, parks and the economy even in a bad flu year so we've as a society decided that 61,000 deaths is acceptable in order to continue our way of life.

The fatality rate by the flu is less than 1%.
The fatality rate here is about %3.5 with a large concentration on old and immunocompromised people. If the whole world catches, that would be about 210 million deaths. That's like a world War. In a very short time. Huge tragedy.

keym

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

But we can wait until we have enough medical equipment.

lovingmommy3417

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:41 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

When you hear about a frum person in critical condition or dead from a car accident do you stop driving? Even for one day? I'm seriously wondering because if not, then I fail to see the difference.

I literally haven't left my house other than my yard in 4 days. Yes we have stopped going anywhere. Also taking a drive (where you cant get the virus) is different than being openly exposed to people.

amother

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:44 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

I'm sorry but asserting that we know ANYTHING about the mortality rate is ridiculous. The best case study we have is the Princess Cruise Line because everyone was tested and it was a small contained environment and the rate was between .3-.7% and thats including the fact that the average age on cruise ships is higher than the population That death rate is artificially inflated because the vast majority of those infected show no symptoms and don't get tested and so we have no factor with which to divide the number of deaths with.

amother

Copper

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:45 pm

You know how many people will die because they were not able to get a surgery or medical help because the beds and ventilators were being used by coronavirus patients. its all about slowing the spread to not overwhelm our medical institutions. Flatten the curve.

I know its extremely hard to keep our children busy and healthy but its for the greater good.

amother

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:50 pm

amother [ Copper ] wrote:

I don't disagree with you that some amount of lockdown is effective for this reason. But it's not sustainable for 2-3 months. Additionally, the deaths and illnesses were seeing now are from people who initially came in contact with the virus 14-30 days ago. Now that we know this is a threat, more people (not all but more) will be more vigilant about hand washing, some form of social distancing etc. which will work not to overwhelm the health system.

amother

Apricot

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:53 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The insinuation that by spreading a disease you are automatically causing a death is faulty. You can't prove that. No one can. I could spread it to 20 people and its entirely possible none of them would die.

The bolded is true. However, one of the 20 people could spread it to another 20 people and one of them could be somebody’s loved one with a compromised immune system who then dies. I am sorry your life isn’t as free as it used to be but it’s worth it to reduce the spread.

amother

Khaki

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:53 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

The parks in my town are closed. Not just the playgrounds, but the walking parks too. I'm all for social distancing, but what we are doing is going to have MAJOR psychological and economic impacts on people that will reverberate for generations.
There are so many things we can do to encourage people to stay healthy without closing everything, including the parks. Wash your hands, don't sneeze in someone's face, stay home if you're sick, don't congregate in large groups.
I mean seriously, what am I supposed to do? Are my toddler and baby going to grow up for the next two years thinking the world begins and ends in my house? Does that sound healthy? IMO, closing everything down is going to make people less likely to be able to social distance for a longer period of time. It's going to drive people absolutely insane.
I already know the response is going to be "well when your relatives are in the hospital, you won't be singing the same tune". And "no amount of economic and mental anguish is worth even one life". But we do this ALL THE TIME. We'd have over 1 million less deaths if we stopped driving, but we've decided that the cure for that (not driving) is worse than the disease (over 1 million dying in traffic accidents). So when are we, as a collective community, decide that closing our parks is just not worth it??

I think suffering psychologically as you are is a whole lot better than physical danger to everyone’s health!

amother

Khaki

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:54 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

When you hear about a frum person in critical condition or dead from a car accident do you stop driving? Even for one day? I'm seriously wondering because if not, then I fail to see the difference.

Um....those aren’t contagious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

amother

Khaki

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:55 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So people should be able to make the choice to go outside if they are comfortable with the risk. I am comfortable with the risk of walking in the park, so I should be allowed to do so. Someone who is uncomfortable with said risk, can bubble wrap themselves inside, spray it with lysol, and stay there for the next 18 years if they so choose. I don't live in NY, I don't even live in a particularly dense area. When the parks were open a few days ago, people were definitely maintaining their distance.

While u may be comfortable with the risk you have no right to endanger others.

ora_43

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:57 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I'm sorry but asserting that we know ANYTHING about the mortality rate is ridiculous.

Right. How we would know anything, based only on case studies from dozens of countries, including several with extensive testing?

We'd better just assume that it's not a big deal. What's the worst that could happen if we're wrong?

Quote:

The best case study we have is the Princess Cruise Line because everyone was tested and it was a small contained environment and the rate was between .3-.7% and thats including the fact that the average age on cruise ships is higher than the population That death rate is artificially inflated because the vast majority of those infected show no symptoms and don't get tested and so we have no factor with which to divide the number of deaths with.

800 people on the (two) Princess Cruise Line ships tested positive.

10 have died. There are others who are still sick.

Since 1% of 800 is 8, I think it's safe to say that your numbers are a bit on the low side.

amother

Denim

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:59 pm

Forget psychological ramifications. It’s not easy, not at all, but you will survive. So will your children.
At least we are not at war, hunkered in bunkers with little or no food, bombs screeching away and wreaking havoc and destruction.
We have food, phones, computers,

ora_43

Thu, Mar 26 2020, 5:59 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I can see why you think I'm coming off as selfish but I'm sick and tired of all the ranting in the news and on imamother that not even one dead is acceptable.

Wow, you've seen that many posts and articles saying that?

Funny, I haven't seen a single one.

Care to share some links?