Has anyone you know changed their mind

amother

Rose

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:13 pm

Silver-yes I run to Hashem & dr like you mentioned
But for healing -not preventive
But again-I hear your side - your right as well
Ivory -I read both sides-that’s why I understand the provax ,but would still choose x to vaccinate
My sister landed in hospital after vaccinate
My brother had asthma attack in drs office afterwards
& I also had my share.
My dr refused to vaccinate again my sister-years ago (Before was a whole matsav of pro or anti vaccine)
& my dr BH respects my choice-
So do I respect all yours:) we all try our best-& that’s what counts
I daven to Hashem to protect all of klal yisroel,all the time ,wtvr we do .Cuz we all need his protection & we all really try our best!
Hands up !keep it up all pro & anti vaxxers!were all doing great job!

amother

Silver

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:23 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

So say that. Say that your family has seen bad reactions. When you spread the antivax stuff, you lose credibility.

amother

Silver

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:44 pm

https://www.chabad.org/therebb.....s.htm

Inoculating Against Illness

In reply to your letter ... in which you ask whether it is only permissible for a doctor to heal someone and use medications after a person is ill, or whether it is permissible to use those medications that prevent illness, e.g., inoculating against disease [and other forms of preventive medicine]:

Preventive medicine has been employed by distinguished Jewish greats and leaders on a regular basis. See also chapter 4 of Rambam, Hilchos Deos. Moreover, there is an explicit verse,2 “No illness shall befall you, for I am G‑d your healer,” [which is to say,] that preventive medicine is also a legitimate form of healing.

(Igros Kodesh, Vol. XIV, p. 107)

amother

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:45 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

So say that. Say that your family has seen bad reactions. When you spread the antivax stuff, you lose credibility.

provaxxers would deny all of these as correlation doesnt equal causation and ask if her dr signed a paper saying reactions are from vaccines and if they didnt affect her own kids what right does she have to see maybe they wont have a reaction. ppl who trust in the system deny that there are flaws and claim risks are 1 in amillion, and ppl like amother rose living in nys cant send their kids to school . once you see that they dont mean your personal good its hard to trust them

#BestBubby

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:49 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

you are being just as simplistic as the poster who said, after having all the schools and stores shut down, of course I'll take a vaccine, nobody wants to go through that again. Nuance, people. Middle ground. Balance. Information. Not knee-jerk reactions.

There are "flu shots". Not even the lying government calls them "flu vaccines" because the flu mutates so rapidly the shots are mostly ineffective - but it makes billions for pharmaceutical industry. But even with "flu shots" there are still tens of thousands who die from flu every year.

So there won't be an EFFECTIVE coronavirus "vaccine" although there might be ineffective
coronavirus "shots". We are going to have to live with coronavirus deaths just like we have been living with flu deaths.

#BestBubby

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:53 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

Nice silver!
How true-but again it’s all for HEALING
Not PREVENTION
Wtvr-We all do the best we can
No point arguing,& we shoul all do bsd what we think we should -& we all have good intentions!

Since the Government (CDC) refuses to compare the health outcomes of Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed, nobody knows if vaccines save more than they harm - but the governments refusal should tell you that the government knows vaccines are more harmful than good.

All medicines carry risks but when one is SICK it makes sense to take that risk. But to inject HEALTHY babies/children with substances that have NOT BEEN PROVEN SAFE and which there IS evidence causes harm......

amother

Silver

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:53 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

I hear what your saying
For now wel have to agree to disagree
But -happily Smile

like I tell my kids always...
What I meant to bring out is, that all they want is $-you know how much these drs get payed from e shot they give per child?how much $ cdc gets ?
A lot:(
& that’s sad cuz that’s why they push it
Anyhow ,doesn’t matter good night !we need koaches for tomorrow:)

This is commonly repeated by antivaxers.
That's one example.
Another that you said drs don't know anything about shots because they don't learn about it in medical school.

If you're saying you have a history of vaccine reactions in your family and you are stuck with no school because you can't vaccinate, it's perfectly understandable.

To start attacking drs in one swoop because suddenly every antivaxer is more knowledgeable than the dr- that's the smokescreen.

amother

Goldenrod

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:54 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The USA death rate is NOT "Confirmed". The CDC told doctors to write deaths as Covid WITHOUT ANY TEST CONFIRMATION if the patient had Covid Symptoms. Since 85% of people with Covid Symptoms test NEGATIVE for Covid this is EXTREME FRAUD.

Plus Hospital are getting thousands $$$ for every Covid Death, but ZERO for regular deaths.

These are not "conspiracy theories" but Facts. The USA Deaths are highly inflated but for
political purposes.

Polls show that virtually all Americans recognize that the "News" is propaganda designed to manipulate them.

Some Americans are aware that "medicine" and "science" are corrupted as well.

Best Bubby if I could just make a suggestion as to your posting style... I really hope this doesn't come across as an attack because that's not my intent at all, but you might want to try cutting down on the excessive capitalization. I know it's not your intention, but it makes you come across as yelling and angry and has the result of putting people who read it "on their guard" and defensive.

amother

Seashell

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:55 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

seqirus pays out 66.33% of its earnings as a dividend. Maybe just go and buy some stock and benefit from all this?

amother

Silver

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:55 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I definitely hear that. It's beyond frustrating.
But mainstream Judaism is to listen to your dr and have bitachon that all will be good. Even preventive medicine.

amother

Ivory

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:58 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Actually not all pro-vaxxers say that.

There was a measles outbreak. In a developed country a child as a 1 in 1000 chance of dying of measles (let's talk just death, not side effects). The vaccine, meanwhile, has a 1 in 3 MILLION chance of killing a child.

There are measles outbreaks every few years. So it's safe your child will be exposed at some point in their lives. So the risk isn't about injecting your child with a vaccine, versus your child never being exposed. Rather, it's a question of which risk would you rather take: A) measles itself, with a 1 in 1000 risk of dying, or B) the measles vaccine, with a 1 in 3,000,000 risk of dying. Personally I would rather the 1 in 3,000,000 risk - it's significantly lower.

Now, you're going to talk about vaccine injury, but the truth is that most vaccine injuries are side effects that are common after suffering the disease itself. For instance, seizures. A child who suffered seizures from the measles vaccine almost certainly would have suffered seizures if he had contracted measles naturally. It's just that the risk of seizures after the measles vaccine is much less than the risk of seizures after contracting measles. But yes of course it is there. However, again, which risk would you rather take? A higher risk after the disease itself? Or a lower risk, after the vaccine? Would you rather risk your child contracting measles while they are sick with something else already, and it's harder for them to fight both illnesses at once? Or would you rather be able to give your child protection against measles at a time that they are healthy and feeling good, and able to develop immunity without having to fight another infection simultaneously?

Vaccines aren't perfect but they are worlds better than contracting the disease itself.

Yes there are children who suffer vaccine injuries, that is real. But if you don't vaccinate your child may well be exposed to and contract the disease itself, and that is a very real, and growing, risk, and it's one that in general I think is not worth taking.

However, your mileage may vary.

It may comfort you to know that in the US, children receive only IPV, not OPV. OPV is pretty much the only vaccine that sheds. IPV does not shed at all. So if someone in your child's class carries polio in their gut (but isn't affected because the IPV protects them), your child may have a chance to contract polio and develop immunity naturally, the way you prefer, instead of via vaccine.

(The other issue here is herd immunity and protecting the vulnerable. But that's a different issue.)

amother

Lemon

Thu, May 07 2020, 12:59 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

So say that. Say that your family has seen bad reactions. When you spread the antivax stuff, you lose credibility.

You probably don't realize it and you definitely don't mean it, but you're coming off as very patronizing. You never gave her credibility in the first place, so what are you talking about losing it?
You were in the cult and escaped. Now you have to open up everyone's eyes to the light.
When you were antivax you had to spread the light to people to stop vaxxing, now you have to spread the light to people to start vaxxing.

Alot of statements you and others are making are based on your very limited view, possibly affected by the people you associate with and the type of person you are.
Until last year June I had no clue that so many people don't vax. I found out that 6/20 children in my DC class weren't vaccinated. None of them fit into the stereotypes you and others are painting.
There was something wrong with your model: Not with people who don't vaccinate.

A large percentage of people in NY I know who started vaccinating chose between a rock and hard place, (and the people who didn't start vaccinating also chose between a rock and a hard place). They didn't spread rhetoric before they vaccinated, and they aren't spreading rhetoric now that that aren't vaccinating.

And, this is not directed to amother Silver, but to many posters. There's plenty I can argue against most points brought here, both from halachic sources and secular, on both sides of the pro and anti equation, some of them which makes so little sense its beyond ludicrous. Anyone who is thinking just a drop critically will pick up on it, but of course you just want to spread your rhetoric, so don't think.

amother

Ivory

Thu, May 07 2020, 1:04 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

I would prefer she keep her current posting style. It alerts me to who is posting even before I double-check the screen name. That way I know to just scroll down.

amother

Thu, May 07 2020, 1:17 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

your logic doesnt make sense . where I live my child wont definitely be exposed to diptheria polio tetanus measles mumps rubella hepatis b haemophilus influenzae and pneumococcal bacteria, maybe some of htem but with vaccines hes getting them all multiple times.