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Moving because of covid attitudes
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amother
OP


 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 6:39 pm
first it was not vaccinating for measles, now its refusing to wear masks, social distance, and comply with DOH guidelines.

I am done. DH and I have talked for the last few years about moving away from the major frum area where we live and to a much smaller frum community near his workplace where people are more educated and compliant with health guidelines.

It's time. Does anyone else feel like they have had enough of being exposed to health risks because of ignorance? It reflects a much bigger division between my world outlook and that of the community I live in.
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ValleyMom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 6:40 pm
YOU are the captain of your ship and YOU choose how your life unfolds...
:-)
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Sep 25 2020, 7:37 pm
I understand what you mean and feel so grateful I’m not in a community like that! Good luck
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 2:53 pm
Make sure it is as you want.
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amother
Aubergine


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 6:25 pm
I can so relate! Just don't have the guts to move /wouldn't know of a place where it's better...
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 7:55 pm
Good luck! I personally don't like medical-minded communities where everyone must step in line or else... but if that's what you prefer, go ahead.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 7:59 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
I can so relate! Just don't have the guts to move /wouldn't know of a place where it's better...


Maybe you can talk to the mother of this letter. Find out where she moved away from. I'm sure you'll love it there:
Quote:
Dear Beloved Rabbonim, Mechanchim, and Leaders of Klal Yisroel,
It is with great pain and trepidation that I write this plea to the leaders of Klal Yisroel; I am a nobody. I’m just a mother, I’m just a Yid trying to do the best that I can, on a day to day basis to serve HKB”H. I’m nobody of stature to share my opinions on the recent Coronavirus outbreak. After the tz’ar that my family and I have gone through and are still silently suffering, my husband and I have decided to stay quiet and work on being mikabel the sorrow and grief that has been caused onto us. However, once the death rate continues to spiral out of control, and the government is continuing to make stricter g’zeiros, I feel that perhaps my tz’ar was for a higher purpose. Perhaps it’s meant to share it with our Leaders, and maybe through that, something constructive can be done to help the rest of Klal Yisroel.
Last year, in November, days before the lichtege chag of Chanukkah, my children were permanently
expelled from school because they were unvaccinated. Please read on. This story becomes quite
unique, and it would be a tremendous consolation to me if you were to read this until the end. It’s all
that I ask for, because up until now, I have never been heard. And that’s all I’ve ever asked for- just to be heard.
My children had a medical exemption and a religious exemption. Both were denied. Not only was this
against state law, but ironically the community that I lived in had zero cases of measles. Although my
doctor felt that my children are pre-disposed to a life-threatening reaction due to vaccines, the school
demanded that only their school pediatrician be the only one to approve of the exemption. To top it off, the community had witnessed the death of a 12 year old girl from vaccines and this was verified by her physician. However, the school refused to acknowledge that and demanded that my children receive not just the MMR but every vaccine, including boosters. That would be dozens of shots.
We asked the school pediatrician to sign off a document that she will bear any legal responsibility if
something chas v’shalom happens to our children. She refused.
When pleading with the school to work something out, we were told that the administration refuses
to communicate with us and we should only contact the school attorney. When attempting to do so, the school attorney told us that he wouldn’t communicate with us unless we had an attorney! To attempt communication, after months of homeschooling, we finally acquired a lawyer who was told by the school that their best offer is they would accept our children if we were to “quarantine” our children in a “self-contained oxygen chamber”. I’m not joking. Those were their exact words. I have it in writing.
What frightens me now is that with the coronavirus outbreak, it’s uncanny to note how now, many are hospitalized, quarantined, and self-contained...using an oxygen chamber AKA a ventilator....
My children and I suffered tremendously because of this. The entire community joined together, and
expelled us from their homes. Our children weren’t allowed into anybody’s homes. Some neighbors
claimed this was due to daas Torah. Some children, quite similar to today’s efforts at social distancing, physically kept their distance from my children and as my children attempted to approach them, they ran away. My children were physically harassed, shoved, and even hit when attempting to go to B’nos events on Shabbos, being told, “My mother says that you’re a rodef!”

When we tried to ask the menahel who his daas torah was so that we can discuss this, he told us he
refuses to reveal to us who his daas torah is. After some research, we found out one of the names of the rabbonim that the menahel is close to and we contacted him. The Rav refused to listen to us nor was he interested in hearing from our doctor. He seemed indifferent to our situation, and he coldly responded his best eitza to us which was, “You want your children to participate in school? Go use Skype.” And what’s chilling about this is... the rest of klal yisroel’s children today are using Zoom or some form of media to connect to school, as they too, have been robbed of face to face, traditional school learning.
We turned to one Rav to the next, but every Rav in our community turned us away. They told us they
weren’t going to get involved. One of them was even responsible for suggesting to our son’s playgroup morah to kick us out. We begged him to have a two-way conversation with us regarding this issue, and we offered him to speak to rabbonim and doctors that are knowledgeable in this area. Our pleas went onto deaf ears, and we were denied any platform to speak.
There were signs posted up outside of shuls, gemachs and mikvaos banning unvaccinated families
from entering. The entire community knew it was us. From what others have told me, people posted
horrible things about us on social media and we were the topic of discussion, and an object of mockery.
The situation hit its clim@x when the city’s most prominent posek came knocking on our door, urging
us to pack up and leave town. My children stood by the staircase, witnessing the scene, listening to him tell us, “People like you are not wanted in a pro-vax town like this”. We asked him, “Move? How can we just pick up and move? Who will pay for a new house? Who will help us? How will we be able to afford life outside of this town?” The rav coldly responded, “I’m sure you’ll find a way, just like everyone else does.”
It was a true Kamtza Bar Kamtza moment for us... and yet the thought seemed to linger in the back of my mind, that if the Bais Hamikdash was destroyed because Yidden were mivazeh one Yid, what will be with Klal Yisroel if thousands of Yiddishe kinderlach are being scorned?
Words can’t describe the pain and humiliation our family suffered as a result of this. My husband and I have fallen asleep, night after night, reciting tehillim and attempting emuna, while turning the lights off and dozing off to sleep with tears staining our pillows. There is no greater pain than watching your
precious children, noses pressed onto the window, palm pressing on the glass, watching their friends
walk to school in their beautiful school uniforms, and that privilege has been robbed from them... and
yet, today, many parents can understand that now, can’t they?
My children have suffered the pain and rejection of other schools in our town refusing to accept us as
well. “Go work it out with your school” they told us. Jewish government agencies have ignored our non- stop calls. We turned to gvirim to help us, but were also rejected. My husband was a yasom, and the both of us were b’alei teshuvos in kollel. We had no support, no family, no money, no “connections”.
The community was everything to us, and now we had nobody to turn to. We felt...isolated. And yet
today, many are isolated within their homes as if they were in our position, too.

My children have missed out on Chanukkah parties, school trips, a Mother-Daughter Melave Malka,
and even beautiful activities such as dressing up in costumes on Rosh Chodesh Adar and making a mock seder for Pesach at school. My daughter even missed her siddur party, and my 3 year old son has missed a tremendous amount of social play in playgroup which has affected him, tremendously. And yet, today, with the current situation, some parents can nod their heads in understanding....
They have also been openly uninvited from birthday parties, events, and from neighbors’ pools in the
summer. Today, during this pandemic, nobody is getting together for celebrations or pools either.
After an entire year of suffering from one rejection and humiliation after the next, summer came, and
my children were rejected from camps. After many months of hoping, waiting and dreaming for a
summer of normalcy for our children, our dreams were crushed. Our children would not zocheh to be
regular kids, running outside with friends, eating freeze pops and splashing in pools- but they would be robbed of a piece of their childhood. And how frightening it is that today, it is uncertain whether or not children will be zocheh to have summer camp this summer...
My husband didn’t know what to say when late at night, he found my daughter’s handwriting
scribbled on a blue Post-It stuck on the table where he learns, “Dear Totty, I know I don’t say it much, but I feel it in my heart. I’m really sad. I don’t have any more friends because I don’t have shots. I don’t want to live here anymore. I want to move away from here.”
My husband and I have made the decision to move out of the town that we used to know and love so
much. We have left with our heads down and with feelings of grief, dejection, and fear of trusting others in klal yisroel. It’s a pain to live like a fugitive, with the hope of starting new, where nobody knows us.
And yet, the move wasn’t easy either.
Our story was shared with to the residents of the new town we have moved to. The schools that we
felt were the most ideal ruchnius environment rejected us, as well, and currently we live in this lonely
town feeling like our children are in a compromised school environment. We don’t feel a sense of
closure, nor do we feel like we were able to fully rebuild.
For the past few months my husband and I would go to sleep at night, sighing in our beds,
remembering the strain that it had put on our household, begging Hashem to help us be mochel the
Rabbonim and the community. Sometimes, we would fall asleep, without any words either. There’s just nothing to say.
I found myself drained from the constant tefillos and tears I have shed over this to the point where
only my heart can express what my neshama has to say, as my words have been frozen. Sometimes I would catch myself davening in the middle of my sleep, for the most part having nothing else to say but “Please, Hashem...”
This entire time I have stayed silent, but Hashem’s message continues to speak louder. Last year, I was unable to speak for myself and nobody has found the words to speak for us. Nobody has heard our silent cry, nor have they spoken for the countless Yiddishe children that have suffered in silence. Will anybody speak today?
The Rabbonim have unanimously made the message clear that the reason for this magefa is lashon
hora and sinas chinam. Will any Rav be brave enough to outwardly and openly say that one of the things
that has to be repaired is the lashon hora and the sinas chinam that has been spread as a result of last
year’s measles debacle?
Perhaps the reason why everyone is wearing masks is because Klal Yisroel’s mouths were
metaphorically closed last year, and everyone stayed silent as their “brother’s blood was being spilled”?
My children questioned me numerously last year, “Mommy, aren’t Rabbonim supposed to be like a
father to us?” And I stayed silent. I questioned it myself... where are our Protectors? And perhaps the
message can be even clearer by seeing how this magefa is operating. It is not affecting the children...
because were children are innocent the whole time.... Perhaps the adults are held responsible, as they
have kept quiet... They were supposed to be Protectors of the Children, and Safekeepers of the Torah.
This virus is mostly affecting men and many Rabbonim, as well- isn’t it their job to uphold Torah? Isn’t it
their job to behave as activists and leaders for Klal Yisroel?
The magefa has thrown all of Klal Yisroel out of shuls, schools, and yeshivos. How can the Sattan
machshiv our davening and learning, if Klal Yisroel themselves didn’t machshiv many families’ davening
and learning by expelling us from shuls and yeshivos? (And mikvaos?)
And even more frighteningly, last year the Jewish world has shown its tremendous loyalty to the
health guidelines as recommended by health officials, and yet with today’s pandemic, we are watching many die in the hands of the same doctors and nurses that are so loyal to government
recommended guidelines as well. Whatever it was that we fully trusted, has betrayed us...
This year, the Yomim Nora’im was a very painful time for my family. After such a painful year, we
haven’t received a single phone call apologizing for the way that we were treated. Not from the school.
Not from the attorney who told us to quarantine our children in an oxygen chamber. Not from the
community Rabbonim. Not from the posek who showed up by our door, telling us to leave town. Not
from our community. No public announcement from any Rav who has told us “Perhaps the wording of
my Psak was too harsh...” At least some form of consolation... at least some form of “you are heard...”
Will there be a brave one that can be courageous enough to take a stand for the families that have
been shamed, humiliated, betrayed and destroyed; can someone stop the madness and help these
families recover from the trauma that they have experienced?
If according to Rav Chaim Kanievsky, the avoda of today’s covid19 pandemic is to work on anivus, can any leader please be humble enough to be open-minded that maybe last year they made a mistake; and perhaps to humbly admit it in public? That this whole pandemic has come to unite Klal Yisroel in realizing that it’s not a vaccine that will save us, but HKB”H? That perhaps this is why Hashem had to send us a virus around the same time of year, and yet this virus has no vaccine, so that we can be brought to their knees to admit perhaps we were wrong? How many people have to die until we are humbled enough to make amends for the irreparable damage that has been done to many of us?
Will someone raise their voices for the sake of the children’s ruchnius, not just for the learning that
they have missed out on, but for the injustice their neshamos have received from our own
communities? Can someone find a way to reinstate our children’s emunas chachamim and restore our
faith in our own people? Can someone be big enough to be a true example of ahavas chinam?
What will we tell our children when we look back at this important time and point of our history? Did
we remain SILENT? Or did we rise above?

Sincerely,
A Yiddishe Mama who Wants Moshiach to Come
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amother
Red


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 8:02 pm
I applaud your decision to go against the tide.
I live in a community with varying views and am so grateful to be part of a shul that has taken the physical and mental health of all it's members seriously. The rav has been a leader in the community spearheading a covid committee to access and publicize resources and guidelines. Despite his overwhelming schedule, he has been accessible to us personally several times to meet via zoom and offer chizzuk and advice. In our divided frum community, being a part of a like-minded shul has been a game-changer. OP, follow your heart and go where you will feel comfortable.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 8:25 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
Maybe you can talk to the mother of this letter. Find out where she moved away from.

Well since there's no way to reach the person who wrote that letter, you weren't even trying to help the OP, you just wanted to post more of this bad argument, and here's the updated list of the times we've heard here it before.

Is this the message we're supposed to get?
This should make everyone stop and think
Long-Overdue Introspection
I'm so fed up!!
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 8:32 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
first it was not vaccinating for measles, now its refusing to wear masks, social distance, and comply with DOH guidelines.

I am done. DH and I have talked for the last few years about moving away from the major frum area where we live and to a much smaller frum community near his workplace where people are more educated and compliant with health guidelines.

It's time. Does anyone else feel like they have had enough of being exposed to health risks because of ignorance? It reflects a much bigger division between my world outlook and that of the community I live in.

I get you. I feel like I don't belong.
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amother
Lime


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:17 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
first it was not vaccinating for measles, now its refusing to wear masks, social distance, and comply with DOH guidelines.

I am done. DH and I have talked for the last few years about moving away from the major frum area where we live and to a much smaller frum community near his workplace where people are more educated and compliant with health guidelines.

It's time. Does anyone else feel like they have had enough of being exposed to health risks because of ignorance? It reflects a much bigger division between my world outlook and that of the community I live in.


I feel the same way, but I have a house and a job here, so I can’t go anywhere right now. (I do dream of getting away to a community with more like-minded attitudes - once I retire, though . . .)
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:24 pm
amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:
I can so relate! Just don't have the guts to move /wouldn't know of a place where it's better...


Yes we are in BP and besides this we are pretty content but how people are behaving makes us feel like aliens. Not planning on moving but I understand OP feeling.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:27 pm
imasoftov wrote:
Well since there's no way to reach the person who wrote that letter, you weren't even trying to help the OP, you just wanted to post more of this bad argument, and here's the updated list of the times we've heard here it before.

Is this the message we're supposed to get?
This should make everyone stop and think
Long-Overdue Introspection
I'm so fed up!!

I don't want to post LH about any specific location but there are enough clues in the letter for those who want to to figure out where she lived, that's why I posted the letter.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:29 pm
I feel you, OP, but I can't actually do anything about it.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:34 pm
amother [ Magenta ] wrote:
I don't want to post LH about any specific location but there are enough clues in the letter for those who want to to figure out where she lived, that's why I posted the letter.

How about, instead of posting that steaming load, you wrote the name of the location and just said that from what you've heard, it's the sort of place OP is looking for!?
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:51 pm
That letter only hints to the ppl her town. I can guess who it was. I feel bad for her.showed the letter to my dh, whose response was,why didn't sh vaccinate!?
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Java




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:51 pm
Oh I get it. Unfortunately there are crazies everywhere you go
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Java




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:54 pm
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
That letter only hints to the ppl her town. I can guess who it was. I feel bad for her.showed the letter to my dh, whose response was,why didn't sh vaccinate!?

I'm the biggest pro-vaxxer but it sounds like she had an actual legitimate medical reason for not vaccinating... so sad Sad
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 9:56 pm
bananas4bananas wrote:
Oh I get it. Unfortunately there are crazies everywhere you go


There's a difference between living next to a random crazy person and being surrounded by people who regard you as the crazy one.

For attempting to comply with common sense guidelines and venishmartem.
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Sat, Sep 26 2020, 10:00 pm
If that antivax mother is who I think she is... (Not positive, because don't know all those details.)

I know who the greatest posek of the town is. (If it's our town.) He is very great and we'll-respected, and I've spoken to him about personal, sensitive issues.

I am not mekabel for a second what she said about him. If he did say anything, I imagine he would've said something very gently, like "I am so sorry things aren't working out here. Maybe it would be better for you to find a place that won't mind that you don't vaccinate your children."

I will not post which town this is, and fellow imas of my town who think it's our former neighbor, PLEASE DON'T POST WHICH CITY! That story/letter was virulently anti the rabbonim here, and I think it's UNFOUNDED LH on our town.
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