“Just follow rules” they cried

amother

Goldenrod

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:13 pm

[quote="ChanieMommy"]What you say would just indicate that there are insufficiant detox facilities and psych wards in the region in question and that more should be invested in public health infrastructure... Which "small-state"-advocates don't want...

I don't think it's new that it is hard to get a place in detox facilites and psych wards...

Also, I suppose your friend did not start drugs because of Covid... this looks as if it is a longer standing problem...

Quote:

I live in NYS, I work in the health insurance industry. I speak with hospitals, patients, outpatient providers daily to facilitate admission to inpatient mental health and inpatient substance use disorder treatment.

There is always a need for more facilities, but despite the need, we have always been able to get patients help (although sometimes they had to be transported a distance due to bed availability).

With Covid there are less beds. Facilities had to reduce room capacity (turning rooms with 2 or more beds into single occupancy). Some facilities shut down temporarily due to an active infection.

One reason why there are less beds, is that those without a safe discharge (such as the homeless) are kept longer now in the hospital because shelters are closed or at capacity or not taking new occupants.

With Covid there is increasing demand for both mental health and substance use disorder treatment. Not even a question. Outpatient services are reduced or modified and don't meet the needs of every patient. Many are unable to access supports and utilize coping skills that were able to maintain them safely in the community prior to the pandemic and onset of social distancing. Financial and other new stressors have made taking it "one day at a time" very difficult. Research is showing that the rates of suicidal ideation have skyrocketed, as have alcohol and substance use.

The combination of a lack of beds and increasing rates of mental health/substance use disorder crisis is a serious problem.

amother

Natural

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:27 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

Yes, we have more space, definitely. But even if somehow being in a denser environment justifies some incremental difference in precautions, it doesn’t change everything. People gathering indoors need to wear masks, even if they can't distance optimally. If there is no place to play outside and people feel they absolutely need to have some indoor playdates, use masks, open the windows, shorten play dates, and limit the number of families you play with. There is no excuse anywhere for simply going "back to normal." I appreciate that you believe in trying, but many people on this site don't.

OK you clearly have no understanding of the differences between urban and suburban living if you think "it somehow justifies some incremental difference." It is not about us justifying it-I am not justifying anything, I am just stating a FACT that urban neighborhoods are going to have a much higher rate of disease.

Its not just about play dates. The average block in BP has multi-family houses that are attached on both sides. There is no outdoor space-no front yards, backyards, or porches. So yes, play dates usually need to be indoors. And if it is attached on both aides there aren't too many windows either.
Since most houses are multi family houses, you have all the shared spaces-entrance ways, hallways, staircases, elevators.

Like a different poster said, people who don't live in Brooklyn JUST. DONT. GET. IT. Yet they feel free to judge away.

And like I said before, I believe in SD. I do not believe corona is over, or that the danger of it is over-exaggerated. Everyone in my family wears a mask everywhere. We haven't been to any large gatherings or simchas. We we only have play dates with 3 specific other families.

amother

Mint

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:34 pm

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I feel like telling people who are so proud of their social distancing on their huge front and backyard, to measure 4x4 and then stand there all day. For months. Because... safety. And don't forget to make room for your neighbors in there. Oh and wear a mask there too. You wouldn't want to make a chillul Hashem.

amother

Natural

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:39 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

This. Dont preach to me from your huge house with your living room and dining room and family room and sitting room and sun room and basement and 5 bedrooms and indoor screened porch and outdoor porch and backyard. And yes I know not all OOT'ers have all these features. But every OOT'er I know has at least some of them.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:42 pm

amother [ Mint ] wrote:

I live in a small apartment too.

But, no one is talking about staying at home.

We're discussing taking the safety measures that everyone has been resisting for months.

amother

Natural

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:49 pm

amother [ Orchid ] wrote:

My family has a small apartment in a city that is not Brooklyn, with no outdoor space beyond a tiny strip of a balcony. Many of my friends are in the same situation. We wear masks, we socially distance. The schools here are masked all day with strict protocols. Is it easy? Nope, it's not easy. But we do it. Sorry, excuses are just excuses.

Like I said before, I SD and mask up as well. The school I work in and the school my child attends were following all the safety protocols set forth by the DOH. ANd we were still shut down.

I am not giving any excuses. I believe we should do everything humanly possible to stop the spread. But shutting down schools isn't the answer. And even with all our hishtadlus we are definitely predisposed to have a higher rate of disease just because of the way we live

amother

Bronze

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:50 pm

wiki wrote:

"Hospitals...already know how to treat the virus." Please explain to the 929 people who died of Covid in America yesterday that their virus was not fatal.

s.

Id really like to see a comparison of how many ppl died in an avg october day compared to now. Have the numbers gone up 900 ppl over last year per day?
The ppl I know who died recently (huge tradgedies) had deaths attributed to covid but families says it’s not true. Even when ppl were dieing a lot a neighbor told me 2 of her relatives had covid put down as cause when it could’ve been something else.
So the big question is are more ppl dieing overall now?

Excess deaths reached their highest points to date during the weeks ending April 11 (40.4% excess) and August 8, 2020 (23.5% excess) (Figure 1). Two thirds of excess deaths during the analysis period (66.2%; 198,081) were attributed to COVID-19 and the remaining third to other causes†† (Figure 1).

youngishbear

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 12:55 pm

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volum.....2.htm

Summary
What is already known about this topic?

As of October 15, 216,025 deaths from COVID-19 have been reported in the United States; however, this might underestimate the total impact of the pandemic on mortality.

What is added by this report?

Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths occurred from late January through October 3, 2020, with 198,081 (66%) excess deaths attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25–44 years and among Hispanic or Latino persons.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:00 pm

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

Can I ask where you live? Is is a suburban neighborhood where everyone lives spread out? What people don't realize is that NYC is so dense and overcrowded, that even if we kept all the rules perfectly, the disease would still spread more significantly than in other places. Which is not to say that we shouldn't try, I 100% believe in masks, SD etc. But we have to realize that we are human and there is only so much we can control

Tokyo, Japan is denser than NYC. Yet they've done well due to their cultural norms of masks, not shaking hands, keeping natural distance, cleaniness etc.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:03 pm

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

We follow the rules and we have a pretty close to normal life. We mask and social distance.

Do I miss having Shabbos guests? Yes. But with masking and social distancing, we are able to still enjoy in-person school, groceries, retail shopping, restaurants, libraries, parks, playgrounds, and other things. I work remotely, but DH is able to work in person. We have playdates outside and get togethers with adult friends and family outside. It's a very good life overall, even if I look forward to relaxing some of the precautions.

It's not a good life here where I live. Half those things that you mentioned aren't allowed Sad

it's gone too far now. It's not a pleasant virus to have, it's awful and CAN be deadly but enough is enough now. Can't do this forever.

amother

Bronze

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:04 pm

youngishbear wrote:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

Summary
What is already known about this topic?

As of October 15, 216,025 deaths from COVID-19 have been reported in the United States; however, this might underestimate the total impact of the pandemic on mortality.

What is added by this report?

Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths occurred from late January through October 3, 2020, with 198,081 (66%) excess deaths attributed to COVID-19. The largest percentage increases were seen among adults aged 25–44 years and among Hispanic or Latino persons.

The peak was April (40%)and August (20%)
What is happening now.
It makes sense it peaked in April because a lot less was known. What are percentages for October and September as comparison.
And 30% of the access deaths aren’t even attributed to covid.

amother

Mint

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:06 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

I live in a small apartment too.

But, no one is talking about staying at home.

We're discussing taking the safety measures that everyone has been resisting for months.

Lesson learned from human beings: if you cramp them for months on end, when they are allowed out, they will resist any form of further cramping. I wear a mask when I need to but I'm ready to rip it off forever.

How many people are in your small apartment. That might have to do with it.

Regardless I'm starting to see more nonJews without masks and it's giving me hope that the implanted fear is dissipating.

amother

Salmon

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:18 pm

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

Whether or not I or others "get" Brooklyn is a total non sequitur. The precautions you describe taking for your family may be different in degree from the precautions I am taking with my extra space OOT, but the general approach is the same. You're doing what you can, putting yourself to considerable inconvenience, but still preserving some social outlets. If everyone in Brooklyn did exactly what you are doing, with schollols open, the rate of spread would be much lower than what it is. Even if it would still be higher than in a less dense community (which I don't disagree with). The problem is that so many people think that, if they can't live in quarantine, they should not bother with any precautions at all.

gamanit

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:34 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

Im going to be a skeptic about the OP. Sorry OP.
I went looking for moshe feiglin's fb page. Its in hebrew, thats first of all. And there is nothing personal there.
Can you link to the page where you found what you posted?

Wrong Moshe Feiglin. You are aware that multiple people in this world have the same name...

This is the correct one.

amother

Azure

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:38 pm

Posters assuming that anyone that doesn't agree with this is not from Brooklyn is the issue. I live in the same cramped apartment you do. I may or may not have more children than you. I am also frustrated at how long this is going on, but the solution would have been to comply. I feel like the goody-goody who continues to be punished bec. the klal doesn't seem to care to get rid of this disease. Go out, go about your day, with a mask. You wear a sheitel even if its not comfortable. tights, etc. I know that's about religion, but so is venishmarten ma'ed lenafshesechem.

so, in turn we adapted a "It doesn't even help anyway" and find sources of people who decided it doesn't help. The proof is in the pudding. when the rules are more strict, the numbers went down.

amother

Plum

Wed, Oct 21 2020, 1:55 pm

I can’t believe anyone is actually comparing suicide rates to COVID mortality rates. How many people do you know who died by suicide? Or by car accident? Or by flu? I can count all those together on one hand, whereas I know dozens of people who died of COVID (including over the past two weeks), and I know of many, many more . . .

COVID is at least a safek pikuach nefesh - for which we are mechallel shabbos, eat on Yom Kippur, etc. V’nishmartem me’od l’nafshoseichem is a mitzvah in the Torah. We sacrifice a lot for mitzvos. Why not for this one?

(Before everyone jumps on me - I live in Brooklyn, I live in an apartment - not a large house with a big backyard, I don’t want everything to be locked down, and I don’t like wearing a mask any more than everyone else does . . . I know all is in Hashem’s hands. I just want us all to do hishtadlus to keep everyone safe . . .)