Why would teacher do this?

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 11:47 am

amother [ Blonde ] wrote:

I remember in 2nd grade my teacher announced that I got a 98 or 100, don't remember, that it was the highest mark. I was a very shy, timid kid, I worked hard for every test. I was bright but not brilliant. I can see why she did it. I don't know if it was or wasn't the right thing to do, but don't assume that because someone got a top mark that their life is perfect and that they didn't try hard for it.

It's no big deal if the teacher does it once a year, especially a girl that can use the extra push. But it is unfair if the teacher calls out the same few girls after every test.

amother

Pewter

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:15 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Sure it's the pendulum model. But some last for quite awhile. And some fall by the wayside, never to return. Announcing grades aloud is one of them. Makes me think of a class from the 1950s or earlier. It was already outdated by the 80s when I was in a somewhat old fashioned for the times BY.
I just didn't realize some frum schools were still such dinosaurs in this respect.

So you agree that there is no 'one' current method?

keym

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:16 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

In my experience, a very smart kid who doesn't do a lick of work isn't going to get the top grades on a regular basis. They'll usually be the solid B student. Especially after 3rd grade, where things are no longer extremely basic.

You can assume that the kids with stellar grades are studying and doing the work.

Why are they constantly being put down here?

"Oh, the girl with good grades probably didn't even bother to study." Or maybe they didn't spend 2 hours playing because they "needed the break," but rather cared more about their grades.

"They don't have good middos." No, anyone who accuses a kid of not having good middos just because she does good in school is the one lacking in middos.

Why can't we acknowledge and appreciate the kid who does well in school. Not every day. But every once in a while. The same way that the kid who wins the race gets a trophy, and the one who sings best gets the solo in the school play, while the awkward kid who can't hold a tune plays a tree.

Why do we need to tell the kids who do best that they should tone it down a little, because we need to celebrate the kid who get a C, who is just as likely to be phoning it in as she is to be working hard. Like the Rainbow Fish -- you shouldn't be happy with your own talents, you should strive to me mediocre and like everyone else.

And no, no one needs to know if Malka got a 45 or an 85, although the teacher can certainly tell Malka how proud she is of her improvement. But there's nothing wrong with saying Ruti got a 100 on her history exam, great job.

I agree and disagree.
My high school daughter is one of those top students. Works hard, studies a lot, even on those stupid daily quizzes and averages 99/100 on the regular.
I like when she gets credit.
Especially since it's popular, now, to diminish high achievers. By saying they don't try as hard as others. By saying they're socially awkward. By constantly reminding them that being smart isn't the end-all, and smart people usually struggle to launch and be successful.
On the other hand, smart is what she has. But she's not necessarily the smartest, just one of the top. And it would create an unnecessary pressure and competition between the 4 top students to become THE TOP. And there would be comments if she "only" got a 94 once.
Her school has Honor Roll. Post the students who average above a certain grade- give them credit. But they don't share every grade. That would be too much.

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:23 pm

nchr wrote:

Parents shielding their children from this are the reason so many kids are such spoiled brats today. No, not every student gets 100. Even students who do shouldn't be rewarded all the time, but if a teacher wants to praise them, so be it. Each person has their own value.

I have no problem with teachers praising good students. But teachers should also prasie students that put in lot's of effort and teachers shouldn't be praising the same students over and over again. This will cause the rest of the class not to do their best and not be interested in putting in effort. If the teacher keeps on acknowledging the same few girls, it shows that the teacher cares more about marks than effort and the class gets the message that the teacher only cares about the good students.

nchr

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:46 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

But your child's entire schooling experience isn't based off of only one teacher or only teachers. Different teachers value different behaviors. Plus, society values grades and success this way so kids are going to get that message unless of course their parents constatnly coddle them and try to protect them from reality.

amother

Mustard

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:49 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

So you agree that there is no 'one' current method?

Talk about arguing for arguments sake now, but whatever.
Used to be the accepted method to punish kids for misspellings, even hit their hand for those, and make them redo and redo assignments with any errors. I think we can safely say that is outdated and no longer in use in any first world school.
Just because educational methods and strategies come and go does not mean certain ones don't get retired forever.
And yes, what you advocate is extremely outdated and not coming back. You will see. Even the most traditional and old fashioned frum schools it is done less and less.

avrahamama

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 12:51 pm

nchr wrote:

Spoiled brats have existed since the dawn of time. I don't think there's more of them today. They're in short stories, plays, shows and cartoons. But that's a different thread.

And teachers can praise whoever they want. Yes.

Not sharing grades for me it's a two fold thing.

1. I respect all of my students privacy by not sharing where anyone is holding. Tzniut is a big thing even in my class. We don't flaunt our grades, we share our strengths and abilities.

2. The grades are data. The data is for the teacher and each individual student to see what's doing. What kind of work is done or needs to be done. One student's grades are irrelevant to the others because it's not about adding a competitive edge to the class. It's about figuring out whats working and what's not for each individual child. It could be that I did a great job getting the concepts through to one child and the other fell through the cracks in my teaching technique.

There's been a lot of talk about growth mindset over the last few years. How to build grit and self esteem. Both these things come from internal motivation.

amother

Red

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 1:47 pm

amother [ Azure ] wrote:

I had a professor in COLLEGE who shared the scores of the class, but it was always anonymized. It helped us understand the curve and overall performance of the class.

We were adults, but even he knew that singling out students like that was not a good idea.

It has nothing to do with that at all. It has everything to do with that it's illegal to share a college student's grade unless he or she specifically agrees to it. There is a privacy policy about grades in every college admission packet.

notshanarishona

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 2:03 pm

Yes, students who work hard should get recognition. The problem is that kids should be recognized for effort and not for brain power . As someone else mentioned, many teachers nowadays reward based on progress and not just the letter grade.
The students who get good grades easily get plenty of recognition even without publicizing it. No reason to shame those who don’t do as well and add competitiveness to the classroom. Different people are capable of different things.

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 2:12 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

I think children can be recognized for both results as well as effort.

The reality is that results do matter in life. Achievements are achievements. My employer cares about results. A customer cares about results.

And children also need encouragement to reenforce good middos and keep striving as they are growing.

Both matter and are important. The answer isn't to diminish either or both. It's to build both of them up imho.

amother

Red

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 2:45 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

So following this line of thought. The artist should be rewarded for his effort, not the product of his work. The singer should be recognized for the hours he practiced, and not his beautiful performance. The athlete should be awarded for his practice sessions and not the winning performance. And so on...

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 2:46 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

When my kids don't get the grade they want, I tell them to study more next time. And guess what?

They do, and then their grade is better and they see the RESULTS!! I don't see the point in coddling them and saying "you did the best you could" when I know they can do better.

I am fine with the teacher rewarding my child or someone else's for their achievements. Less jealously people, and more studying!

Again, not all kids do better by studying more. There's a limit at how much we should push a child. Some kids won't excel no matter how much they study. If my child had studied reasonably well and didn't get a good grade, I don't think I'd say that they should study harder.

Malkqueen

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 4:09 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

I think a basic difference that in art, dance, etc. there's a choice for the artist to create, and when he does so, and achieves something, even if its a direct result of his talent, then we applaud him for his creation.

Students aren't given a choice if they want to be in school. Therefore, why is it fair to call out the (mostly God-given-smart academically-minded) students for achievement, when the point of school is to learn, not to be a competition that needs winning?

notshanarishona

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 4:09 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

(1) first of all, as an adult someone chooses a profession they are capable of and hopefully good at. Someone who is non academic can do something with their hands or body playing sports is a great example. etc. kids are all forced into the bubble of school . Not everyone is going to achieve success in learning. Everyone can be successful in something.
People choose a profession. Kids are forced into school even though it’s not a good match for some kids .
(2) kids are young. They don’t need to be thrown into the real world in elementary school. Maybe by end of high school/ college.

Last edited by notshanarishona on Fri, Jan 08 2021, 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Slateblue

Fri, Jan 08 2021, 4:10 pm

Malkqueen wrote:

This. And art, choir, dance... are a public performance. Tests aren't a public performance. Grades are supposed to be private.