Why would teacher do this?

amother

Maroon

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:14 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

I don't see a problem with that. If other girls want the same marks, they can study and work for it and will do fine.

IME, studying hard will get a girl from high 80s to lower 90s. Not from lower 90s to 100, and definitely not from mid 70s to 100s.

So "if other girls want it, they can study and will do fine" is not true.

amother

Magenta

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:19 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

No, it's not nice for excelling girls to get their skill acknowledged because this usually has nothing to do with them. Weaker students often put in way more effort than excelling students, it's the effort that counts, not the marks. It's awfully humiliating and so heartless to the weaker girls to announce the marks to the class.

You seem to be assuming that girls who excel do not work for their good grades while girls who do poorly are putting in tons of effort. I really disagree with that assumption. Why shouldn't academic excellence be recognized?

amother

Magenta

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:22 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

I don't think it's awful for the regular girls.
My concern is more about it breeding an attitude of arrogance among the top 3 girls who regularly get the public announcement. As well as possibly triggering anxiety due to perfectionism in those girls worried about losing their "spot." Sometimes high achievers can't handle moving down to 4th place and they fall apart (or are tempted to cheat).

If a girl becomes so anxious about losing her "spot", resorts to cheating or falls apart, there has to be something else going on imo.

amother

Tangerine

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:23 pm

I cant believe these comments as the teacher should be allowed to acknowledge the girls who worked hard and got high scores.

to say girls who are smart don't work hard is ridiculous and not true of a lot of ppl. yes, maybe a child who got a 70 studied longer than a child with a 90 buf not always....

and, just like the best dancers/singers etc in the school play or ....are acknowledged for their talents, why cant the teacher acknowledge the girls who got high grades like all who got 80 and above...

to say its the effort that counts, yes, but not in yeshivas where there are tests and entrance exams to get into high schools and they do look at grades....even in real life, in jobs, if a worker works long hrs and is hard working if they dont "produce" they usually are not earning for example sales etc.

yes, I agree schools should acknowledge effort too, but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging "all girls with an 80 or above" just like some schools have an honor roll or honor society only for students with grade x and above.

(by the way, im a parent of a struggling student and an above average student....my struggling child has other talents that I praise her for, but it will be challenging to find a high school for her bec schools want the grades on the report card...they dont care much about effort otherwise there would be no grades on tests and no exams to get into high school.)

amother

Lavender

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:24 pm

smss wrote:

Do you really believe it works like that?

Yes, I do believe. Unless there is a learning disability in place, if you work hard you will succeed. Some need to study more than others, but if a student puts in effort they can do it.

Mevater

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:26 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Weaker students often put in way more effort than excelling students, it's the effort that counts, not the marks.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Sometimes its the girls who get
the highest marks, who have the worst Midos. This is another reason for them to snub their classmates.

Last edited by Mevater on Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:26 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

If a girl becomes so anxious about losing her "spot", resorts to cheating or falls apart, there has to be something else going on imo.

Often it's those anxious perfectionist types that are the high achievers. Very tightly wound. Not unusual at all.

BTW I think it would be absolutely humiliating to have a list of girls with an 80% or above average. Because it's obvious who is a C or below.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:27 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

Yes, I do believe. Unless there is a learning disability in place, if you work hard you will succeed. Some need to study more than others, but if a student puts in effort they can do it.

So why is it ok to humiliate students with learning disabilities? or do you not believe in mainstreaming.
(There is enough elitism in frum schools, sadly. No reason to introduce another layer, imo.)

amother

Lavender

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:41 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

So why is it ok to humiliate students with learning disabilities? or do you not believe in mainstreaming.
(There is enough elitism in frum schools, sadly. No reason to introduce another layer, imo.)

The teacher didn't humiliate anyone. She just rewarded the ones that worked hard for their grade.She didn't say out loud the other grades.

The problem is certain parents want their kids to be the best ones and they are the ones feeling humiliated when it's not their kid who got the best grade, and then they pass this idea to their children.

Some kids are great in sports naturally, others are musically inclined, others have it easier getting good grades. Giving a trophy to everyone is not real life.

Mevater

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:46 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

All the girls in the class already know who the super achievers are, no reason to rub it up everyones' noses and humiliate the girls who try but dont suceed.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 8:55 pm

amother [ Lavender ] wrote:

Its been over 30 years and I still remember a 10 year old classmate having a tearful outburst in class when the teacher was doing something similar. Crying it wasn't her fault she got a bad grade, because she had a learning disability. Believe me her parents were supportive and never made her feel bad. She felt it herself. I wasn't a high achiever myself and couldn't care less about the elites getting publicly praised at any point in my school career, but my heart bled for my friend, and it still does.

amother

Pewter

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:02 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Op here. The teacher announces the highest score possible and and those that got that score and the second or third to highest as well. Can you imagine what the girls who don't score well feel like? I honestly feel bad for them.

kid who didn't score well most of the time speaking. I felt how I felt for not scoring well - its kind of not relevant that other kids scored well.

amother

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:02 pm

Op here. I can't believe how many people think that what this teacher does is totally ok... The more I think into it, the more upset I get. My daughter does very well on tests bh. She is a great student and studies an average amount. She is often one of those whose mark is announced. I feel that the teacher is creating an unnecessary pressure to get a perfect or almost perfect score. I always tell my kids that as long as they put in the effort and try their best, I don't care what mark they get.

amother

Lavender

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:11 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You are doing a great job as a mother, the effort is very important and what matters the most. I still don't think the teacher was wrong though. People are different. Some are born very beautiful. Some are naturally nice, others have to work on their middot. Others need to study more. That's life. We are all different and equally valuable.

amother

Red

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:17 pm

amother [ Magenta ] wrote:

ITA. Why is being blessed with a talent for academics demonized and other talents are rewarded? If it's truly the effort that only counts, why not carry that over to all other talents as well? We should have the average performers take the star roles in plays. Singing should be led by the average singers. Sports team should be consist of those who will try the hardest, not athletic capabilities. Art projects should be delegated to the average artists. After all, its the effort that counts, not the results.

If you truly believe its only the effort that counts, then we shouldn't be giving any extra attention to the good singer, to the great dancer, or the ones blessed with athletic talents. If it's ok to acknowledge those talents, then it should equally be ok to acknowledge academic talents.

amother

Red

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:20 pm

Mevater wrote:

All the girls in the class already know who the super achievers are, no reason to rub it up everyones' noses and humiliate the girls who try but dont suceed.

How is this different than applause for a great singer who just performed? Is it rubbing it in everyones faces that the singer is blessed with a singing talent? Everyone already knows that this singer sings beautifully.

amother

Mustard

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:21 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

A lot of times in frum schools these sorts of posts or roles go to those with pull or connections. It isn't always or even usually those who are most talented or capable.
So your analogy doesn't really work.

amother

Pewter

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:25 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Right. So being the great parent that you are - when your child puts in the effort and tries their best - your child will know that you will approve of their grade. That's what's important.

You expect your child to try their best and put in the effort - that's pressure, no?

The teacher must think that this motivates some girls, and she is probably correct.

I hope the same teacher is writing short notes to the girls one their tests to celebrate improvement etc. A girl might not get her name announced but she got a private acknowledgment.

Mevater

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:43 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

The advantages of doing what this teacher does, dont outweigh the disadvantages.

amother

Red

Thu, Jan 07 2021, 9:44 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Outliers don't change an analogy. The majority of schools that put on public performances for outsiders almost always choose the talented kids for their respective roles.