S/O middle class vent

SacN

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 2:51 pm

Quote:

I think different people have different strengths.

This. Thank you.
I think that rather than focusing on only money and flexibility, the frum world would do well to consider where you, as a person, are going to thrive.

I have two liberal arts/social science degrees, of the type that has been lambasted in this thread for being frivolous, useless, and a waste of money.

I earn a top salary, as an employee, doing something I love. I also have ambition. Motivation. Foresight.

All skills we could help steer our children towards before "good for moms" and "pays decently per hour."

amother

Gold

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 3:17 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don’t want to derail that thread. A few posters wrote that they went to school for many years and make about 50k.

I didn’t do schooling and make more than 50k working Less than 30 hours a week. And I have the potential to be at 65k too.

So why do schooling for professions that net so little? Aren’t they wasted years of schooling. You barely make more than someone without a degree and you have student loans.

Don’t get me wrong. I applaud those who had the drive and patience to push through more years of schooling voluntarily, but is it worth it?

The reason why I went to school and got a masters degree is so that the few hours that I do work will be worthwhile. I don't work full time and I don't make the kind of money mentioned above but I can make between $70-80 for half hour/40 minutes. So its worthwhile for me to work even 4 hours a week. If I only made $15 an hour I'd have to work many more hours to be at the same amount.

amother

Taupe

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 4:35 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Similar situation here. I don't have a high school diploma, basically a high school dropout, and earn over 90K now 10 years later.
My "educated" colleagues with their fancy degrees earn a quarter of what I do.

Hard work is hard work.

So your "educated" colleagues with "fancy" degrees earn minimum wage.

Interesting...

Jeanette

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 4:38 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Wowowow! I did not see that coming. We were talking about chassidish FEMALES in upper 20s-low 40s having a higher earning capacity within the community than other places. How did we get to most chassidish families being on sound financial footing? Most women dont work. You realize that?

I'm not exactly clear what you're saying.

A chassidish female in the upper 20s-low 40s will make more money in the chassidish community than she will make elsewhere?
A chassidish female will make more than a non-chassidish female in a similar job and occupation?
Chassidish employers pay more than non-chassidish employers?

amother

Mint

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 4:45 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Chassidish employers may pay more for chassidish female employees in their upper 20s to lower 40s than they will make elsewhere and that someone with a similar job and occupation will make, non chassidish or otherwise.

Is that clear?

amother

Oak

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 4:46 pm

Jeanette wrote:

In general, yes to all the questions. The third question, chassidish employers will pay more to chassidish female workers (aged as above) if thats what the business needs.

amother

Coral

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 4:48 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Yes. The frum community these days pays very very well for experienced good part time work. (Secretary, office manager, book keeping, medical billing, sales, administrative assistant, advertising)

I have a degree and many years professional experience. And I’m constantly shocked at the women I know making similar to me with no advanced education and few hours.

Yes chassidish and yeshivish employers pay more. You can’t compare salaries in Lakewood to anywhere else.

rosesandlilies

Wed, Apr 14 2021, 4:51 pm

[quote="amother [ Oak ]"]Oh, and just to tease you a bit further, my kids are in a huge chassidish Mosed so my tuition bill is under 5k....
Lakewood would be the disadvantage. Chassidish places sometimes look to hire specifically Chassidish women who are nuanced with our culture. Not to young, as in out of school, and not those who married off all their kids. Hence higher paygrade Very Happy

as I said, supply and demand at play.[/quote
yes I must agree here. I am chasidish too and my boss also. For certain positions he specifically wants from our community. We just get each other in a way an outsider doesn't. We 've tried that. Add to that that it's Williamsburg based and at close to 30 am only one of a handful of women in my community my age that still works. So it's supply and demand at work here...

amother

Seagreen

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 8:41 am

SacN wrote:

Quote:

I think different people have different strengths.

Can you elaborate on this practically?

SacN

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 9:46 am

Quote:

Can you elaborate on this practically?

Not sure what you mean. I know people - in my own family- who persued the normal frum degrees and career paths who aren't really growing in their careers, who make decent but not great money, who are okay but not great at what they do. Who don't love it. Who struggle with not loving it. Who got bored.

I work in an artsy field. When I was in shidduchim, everyone said, what are you doing to do with that degree? When I persued my master's, people told me I was nuts.
But now I work for a global company with a great salary and great benefits, and tons of growth and learning opportunities. I use my art background, my business sense, my people skills. It actually suits me, and is a career I can build to hopefully earn more money over time as my expertise grows.

I'm a big fan of looking at the job market before any advanced studies, and then picking the things you love to do within the job market.
The rest will fall into place. But you need to like your work.

If you want more details about my career, feel free to PM me.

amother

Orange

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 1:35 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

im saying before covid, and even now.
I work in a yeshiva it hasnt felt like covid there. I still speak to parents when I get home @5 and I cant bill. thats true for any therapist. ot, pt, slp. our jobs demand us to speak to parents and caregivers, and we cant even bill

It’s true but most jobs these days require after hours work.

amother

Cyan

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 1:52 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Sorry 1/3, not 1/4. Maybe not minimum wage, but 20-22 dollars an hour.
It's just a fact around here.
And yes, I can do very well in life without knowing what bacteria looks like under a microscope.

Interesting. I know plenty of people with "fancy degrees" who are making over $100 an hour. Very few without degrees who are making that much.

I would be so curious as to where your colleagues got their "fancy degrees" and in which area. And why in the world they are willing to work for $20 an hour. That's just a little more than my cleaning lady makes (and she doesn't even speak English!).

amother

Taupe

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 1:57 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Sorry 1/3, not 1/4. Maybe not minimum wage, but 20-22 dollars an hour.
It's just a fact around here.
And yes, I can do very well in life without knowing what bacteria looks like under a microscope.

Nobody claimed otherwise. Nobody is claiming that a college degree is a precondition for "doing well in life."

The assertion in this thread though seems to be the opposite--that people without college degrees do better for themselves and therefore a college degree is a waste of time and money, which I don't believe is born out by the evidence.

Nor do all "fancy degrees" require knowing what bacteria looks like under a microscope, although it's cool to know this nevertheless. I believe most people get this opportunity in high school.

amother

Linen

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:16 pm

SacN wrote:

Quote:

Can you elaborate on this practically?

I personally have a degree because I know that I would not make a good business woman and I am not naturally talented in any particular area. Therefore, I went to college to learn the skills and knowledge necessary for a career that interested me. It is possible that your family members did the same, and didn't want to rely on natural talents or skills that they perhaps do not have. I am ambitious and motivated so I am continuously looking for ways to advance my career and increase my earning potential, and I am thankfully pretty successful. If someone doesn't have these traits, I can see why they wouldn't get very far even after having a degree. However, if someone like this doesn't go to school, they will likely be in an even worst off position with little inborn talent or learned skills to speak of.

amother

Taupe

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:23 pm

I have a degree and work in a field that's interesting and challenging and also gives me the opportunity to really make a difference in people's lives. I seek out opportunities to advance in my field but those opportunities won't necessarily earn me more money. It doesn't really bother me because money isn't everything in life. It's just hard when you're rasing a frum family and really working to your maximum capacity and still struggle to cover the basics. To make more money would basically mean prioritizing things that are not as important to me.There are things I could do to earn more money but they would involve doing things that IMO aren't the best use of my talents and skills.

amother

Hotpink

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:24 pm

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

Why do you need to spend so much time on the phone?
I've only gotten one introductory phone call from my child's speech therapist at the start of the school year.
Occasionally she'll send home a worksheet with a short message scrawled on the back.
"Chanie did beautifully on this. We also read the book____-"

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Apr 16 2021, 2:41 pm

amother [ Plum ] wrote:

Sorry 1/3, not 1/4. Maybe not minimum wage, but 20-22 dollars an hour.
It's just a fact around here.
And yes, I can do very well in life without knowing what bacteria looks like under a microscope.

I find it really hard to believe that anyone with a degree is working for $20/hour (unless maybe they’re interning or working for experience?). That’s what I pay my 20 year old babysitter.