Question for anti-vaxxers

sky

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:32 pm

I’m always shocked at the effort ppl go to warn others about vaccines.

They publish magazines which is a tremendous amount of time, effort, money.
They make spam calls- again money.

I don’t have too many things I believe in I’d spend that much time and money to convince others...

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:34 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

The argument is that people who are vaccinating aren't aware they are taking a dangerous shot - if they did, why on earth would they do this.

Everyone weighs the risks for themselves and makes the decision to do what they think is best for them. You think it's dangerous, I think it isn't. End of story. Everyone is entitled to their decisions. There's no need to literally harass and bully others to make it known that YOUR decision is the ONLY right way. I don't want to think of the outcome if no one would vaccinate their kids ch'v. The non vaxx moms should appreciate everyone that does vaxx because they're protecting your kids.

amother

Turquoise

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:36 pm

smss wrote:

Sure, through mass disease and death.
I just don't think that's preferable.

Look at the chasidish and Amish communities for reference as to how herd immunity can be achieved without mass disease or death.
We do have access to drugs that help if someone gets sick but B'H people are not getting sick today thanks to herd immunity which was achieved without a vaccine.

And why wont you answer the question as to why vaccinated people wont remove their masks? If the vaccine works then why walk around with a mask when the cdc already said it can be removed?

smss

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:41 pm

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

Personally, I'm vaccinated and I no longer mask in most situations.

Why would someone who was vaccinated choose to do that? I have a few guesses:
-no vaccines are 100% effective and they have very low risk tolerance
-they have children who can't yet be vaccinated and want them to mask and want to set an example for them

I'm sure there are other reasons, but I can't really answer for other people.

Also, I know very little about the chassidish communities and less about the Amish but are you trying to say that no one dies of vaccine-preventable diseases in those communities? Including covid? You had no covid deaths? That sounds really unlikely....

Last edited by smss on Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:42 pm

No to your question OP. I have some friends who are anti vaxx. They are like that because they care and feel like obligated to tell you that you are being scammed and want to prevent you potential harm.
If they didn't care about others, they wouldn't preach. When they realize it is pointless one day they will stop.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 2:51 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

Here dangerous isn't subjective - its not 'you think this', 'I think this'. For the women screaming from the rooftops its factual that vaccines are dangerous and will harm pregnant women and children.

Like you taking your kids to a playground and you don't know that there is a pack of hungry wolves around the corner, heading in the direction of the slide.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 3:41 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

So they're brainwashed? Or delusional?

amother

Aubergine

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 3:44 pm

sky wrote:

What about the $1.5 BILLION the government is spending on vaccine ads and confidence education? What about influencers being paid to post pictures/stories of themselves taking the shot? What about all the incentives and lotteries for people who take vaccine?

Non Covid related-Do you know that doctors get paid for fully vaccinated patients? My insurance company offers me $50 a year per kid to be up to date on their vaccines.

So obviously either there are others who strongly believe in things that spend boatloads of money to tell ppl about it and incentivize, or they actually don't believe in it, and need to spend the money to convince others to do it.

southernbubby

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 3:57 pm

I got the Covid vaccine because I didn't exactly enjoy having coronavirus and I know people who have had it twice. I also knew people who passed away from Covid complications. I also wanted my freedom.
I find that the antivaxers that I know who proselytize want their position to include more people so that the government position will be forced to change.
Covid can be dangerous during pregnancy but I admit that most children probably don't need to be vaccinated for their own safety. OTOH, during childhood it's probably possible to achieve lifelong immunity from the vaccine because of the strong immune response.

amother

Cerulean

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 3:57 pm

smss wrote:

How and why does an anti-vaxxer become an evangelist?

I'm honestly confused by it.

The more people that vaccinate, the safer you are and the more easily you can rationalize not vaccinating.

Why are you trying to get everyone else on your side?

Isn't that counterproductive to what you want?

Not interested to get sucked into a debate here but I will give you a few short answers:

#1. I initially chose to fully vax but on delayed schedule. Then shifted to selectively vaxing (delaying some, entirely skipping others). Eventually landed on no vax at all. That said, I don't consider myself anti-vax, but rather pro-medical freedom. Just as I have so far been able to make choices for my family along with my doctor's guidance, so should every person and parent have medical freedom to do what is right for their family.

#2. I'm no evangelist. We lay low. I only discuss my feelings about this topic among like-minded people or someone who is very open and asking questions already. Most of my friends and neighbors do not have the slightest clue where we stand on the vax issue or how much or little any of my children have been vaxxed. Nor should they know. It's a private matter.

#3. I don't believe others vaxxing are keeping the non-vaxed safe. If there was a great shift and suddenly 50% or more of kids were no longer being vaxxed, it would be of no worry to me. I'd be glad for those kids. So while I'm too cowardly to speak out about what I believe IRL for fear of my children being ostracized and friendless, I admire those with the courage to do it.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:03 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

what does this mean? how could childhood vaccinations be 'right' for one family but not 'right' for another family (assuming there are not underlying health concerns).

amother

Jade

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:04 pm

Didn’t read previous response. I am vaccine wary but stay away from proselytizing. The only reason I could see myself educating people is because we need people on our side to help us fight harmful to us legislation. That’s it. Even so, I only ever share with people who seem genuinely interested in learning more, and never in an overbearing or fear mongering way. I’m very careful with how I present my opinions.

sky

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:05 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

If all your say is true then they have financial gain to spend all that money.
Totally makes sense.

What gain do those who publish anti-vaccine literature in the frum world.
Doesn’t make sense to spend all that money
Unless they make money from advertisers.

Sprinkles1

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:08 pm

amother [ Pewter ] wrote:

No, its not factual. A fact is something you could prove 100%.

Quote:

Like you taking your kids to a playground and you don't know that there is a pack of hungry wolves around the corner, heading in the direction of the slide.

How about- like you taking your kids to the park and imagining there's a pack of wolves..... ? Did you actually see the wolves?

amother

Pewter

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:18 pm

Sprinkles1 wrote:

No, its not factual. A fact is something you could prove 100%.

Lavender wrote:

I am screaming virtually from the rooftops and it's not bc I'm unsure, everyone is just choosing to be so DEAF.
WAKE UP PEOPLE

Some things in life you can prevent. There's no need to bring mageifa upon our communities by vaccinating the pregnant and the children (or anyone else for that matter). Wake up wake up

seems Lavender is rather sure its factual.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 4:28 pm

I’m a fan of vaccines since they’ve reduce the risk of very scary diseases by a lot. They’ve also been proven to be effective and have almost no long term effects. That being said, I do space out vaccines and don’t dump them on a kid all at once. That I DONT believe is necessary. That I feel is more likely to overwhelm a kids body and cause an adverse reaction- even it only means my kid being sick for a few days.
Regarding the Covid vaccine, it’s really not been out long enough for me to see the benefit. I don’t see why someone who already had Covid and has antibodies needs a vaccine. I think that’s like encouraging someone who had measles to vaccinate after. Since I have antibodies, I’d rather wait and see. Especially considering that word is that you’ll need another Covid vaccine every 6 months.
Yes I know it’s mRNA and not doing anything to your body, but fake hormones are also damaging even though your body technically makes the same thing. ( I know, 2 diff things...) but point is I’m not about to inject something foreign without it being around for a long time. It’s not life threatening enough that the risk is worth the benefits.

amother

Rose

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 5:05 pm

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

If someone is really sure about themselves and their ways, they wouldn't be fighting so hard to show that their way is the right way. When people behave like that, it shows that they're not sure of themselves.

That's what I say about all the fire and brimstone around the covid vaxxine.

amother

Rose

Tue, Jun 01 2021, 5:07 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

What I can’t understand is why anti-vaxxers are happy to believe YouTube videos and the like from unknown, unregulated sources, but they feel that immunologists and those who study vaccines all day are talking nonsense.

It's not that they're talking nonsense, it's that the videos of their immunologist colleagues who are presenting a different perspective/studies/etc. are removed and hidden from the public. Someone with power is controlling what the public has access to.