Dd 16 yo is very chutzpah to me

amother

Grape

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 12:29 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Our therapist has shown us that behind all that name-calling is a child that’s really not secure, and is engaging in power struggle/anxiety.

This is no excuse to destroy his mother.

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

We also keep telling him over and over again in a matter of fact way that it is unacceptable the way he’s talking to us.

Which is obviously not working...

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 12:35 pm

Laiya wrote:

For those saying that teenagers are chutzpadik, what OP describes is beyond any realm of normal. What's especially concerning is that these are the ONLY things dd says to her, not just things dd says when she's feeling frustrated or upset.

I don't think we need to psychoanalyze dd. She may or may not have justified anger at OP, or it might be something else altogether. The issue is that dd's behavior, while hurtful to OP, *is harmful to dd herself*.

I agree with the other posters OP, that you should prioritize going to therapy to learn how to change your own responses so you can change the dynamic. Just like it's important to you that dd has nutritious food, it is vital for her own emotional health that this behavior stops.

And you've already seen success with this approach in the past.

I agree with this post. That is why I feel that OP should get therapy for HERSELF - to learn how to change the dynamics, and to get support while doing it.

But please, please don't change what is already good. There's a concept in a household of the "tmidim k'sidram" being in place - the basics. Food, shelter, clean clothing - these are basics that you provide your children with, and you don't take it away based on their behavior, you give it unconditionally. But just as these are important to your child, so to is the emotional health and relationship, and that is something OP that you need to work on and fix.

I'm rooting for you.

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 12:39 pm

byisrael wrote:

I didn't read all responses -

Your DD obviously needs help

I would take her out with someone she loves and trusts(older sister, aunt...) to a public place (cafe ect.) Tell her its a shopping trip - buy her some stuff first so she's in a good mood.

Then you bring out some recordings and discuss how there is obviously a lot that she is going thru that is causing her to act so inappropriately. Acknowledge that home was far from ideal, take responsibility for your part in it and that this may have been her coping mechanism, but it is not an acceptable one any more then taking drugs would be.

Then bring up family therapy.

Hopefully her being in a public space + being with a family member she respects will help keep her reaction in check. The idea is to have her go to therapy willingly - forcing her to therapy will not help because she won't cooperate.

I would never recommend abusing a hurt teen's trust by taking her out with ulterior motives. They will pick up on this really quickly, and it will only hurt the relationship.

And for sure not in public no way.

amother

Mintgreen

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 12:39 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I agree. I don't think cooking hot meals is included though.

A 16 yr old who tells her mother to die can make her own salad and grilled cheese as long as there are ingredients.

amother

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:24 pm

amother [ Diamond ] wrote:

Ouch!! It's one thing to be angry and behave like you all did when being teens, but not regretting all that awful behavior when grown up and still not being "particularly nice" to your mother is another level. She obviously was abused and not strong enough to stand up for herself or leave. And she obviously loved you all so much cause she kept on giving and givingn despite your abuse toward her.

This is really strange. My children are very protective of dh. I think because he is narcissistic they were conditioned from young age to protect him. Even though they would say out of the blue that they know that he is “crazy” ( even though right now he is not abusing basically) when a situation arises they are very protective of him. I’m sure there is a psychological reason for it.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:25 pm

amother [ Grape ] wrote:

This is no excuse to destroy his mother.

If the only issue is chutzpadik talking and that still destroys the mother, there is something wrong with the mother.

Like if the child says "you're stupid I hate you I want you to die" but then goes and picks up his clothes anyways, and mom is still destroyed by his words. That's something wrong with the mother.

Chayalle

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:

I agree. I don't think cooking hot meals is included though.

A 16 yr old who tells her mother to die can make her own salad and grilled cheese as long as there are ingredients.

Cooking supper every night is a basic by me. I do it for my family. I don't expect them to eat grilled cheese (unless they don't like what I cooked for supper and prefer that.)

A 16 yr old who tells her mother to die badly needs a mother who is getting professional advice to reset the dynamics of the relationship. Not one who gets even by stopping to make supper.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:30 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I guess it is.

Okay, so then you need to work through that FIRST. Both that she was spoken to this way and that your DH spoke to you this way.

She is copying what she saw. She shouldn't be talking that way but you can't exactly blame her for copying her parents since childhood.

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Anyway She would never agree to go out with me unless she asks for it for a specific reason

Wonder why that is? Do you know? It's a very not nice feeling to feel used. But she is obviously avoiding you for some reason. When you find that reason and correct it, you can begin to change the relationship. And maybe it dates back to when you and your DH were on the verge of divorce.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:33 pm

amother [ Pear ] wrote:

Please don't spend one more minute responding to amother Burgundy. She is abusive.
Yes you read a note that you found. To make THAT the issue is insane.
Go away Burgundy if you can't be supportive and helpful to OP.

What power do I have over OP, that can be abused and make the relationship between us abusive?

I have tried only to help. Maybe I have not said everything in the most gentle way possible, but that doesn't make me abusive.

And, if you are going to call me out as abusive - which is name-calling and trying to dirty my image, then at least do it under your screen name. Also, telling me to "go away" is really immature and probably also goes against the rules. Personal attacks just aren't okay.

I am anonymous because I put too many personal details into my posts. What's your reason?

BTW reading someone's private stuff - even your teenage child's - is a big issue.

amother

Mulberry

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:33 pm

Chayalle wrote:

A 16 year old who tells her mother to die might on some level be trying to get her mother to hate her or at least be trying to prove that her mother does not love her. Cooking for the family is technically not a basic necessity, but it shows love. And love should never be conditional.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:34 pm

amother [ Diamond ] wrote:

How about DLKZ, since you obviously don't know what you're talking about. There's no need to be mean to someone who obviously suffered much more than she deserved to during her childhood.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:35 pm

Chayalle wrote:

This, this, this.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:35 pm

banana split wrote:

You really should get off this thread. What is wrong with you??
OP is a loving mom who wants to do right by her daughter. Came on here for advice. Not for an anonymous angry person to put her down.

Yeah, this really crosses a line. Personal put-downs are not okay, ever.

OP asked for advice. I tried to help. Sorry you didn't like what I had to say.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:36 pm

amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:

Don't pass judgements on things you know nothing about. That wasn't the point of me posting. I was pointing out that the OP is not doing herself any favors by being a doormat and using my family as an example. Other than that, MYOB when you have 10% of the relevant information.

Hugs to you. Heart

And you are right, 100%.

amother

Stone

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 1:45 pm

This girl clearly resents her mother for something. I think it's more than just witnessing her father's abuse. Sometimes the mothers throw their identity and energy into the child when they can't get a relationship out of the husband.

OP says her husband has stopped abusing. But she doesn't say that they now have much of a relationship.

OP we are supposed to give to our children in several ways. A lot of posters here say that food, laundry, etc are basics. I don't think this is the type of giving that will satisfy your child. I also don't think that trying to become close to her will also. She doesn't want you to die. She wants to see you have a life. A real one. That's when her respect for you will start to grow. It's likely that she appreciates the dinners and the laundry but also that she sees it as another way that you live for her instead if yourself.

OP what are you about? What makes you feel fulfilled? Does she see that you have a dynamic vibrant living side to you?

amother

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 2:25 pm

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

I have a career but not many friends because dh is very prominent in the community and they sided with him. Even though we are ok now together my reputation was destroyed. Dd doesn’t know anything about this. She was a baby when it happened.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 2:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Your DD knows the truth, it doesn't matter how old she was when it first happened - it's been going on long enough.

She might be resentful that everyone but her knew, and she had to find out from friends or community gossip. But by now, whatever the truth is, she knows it.

amother

Mintgreen

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 2:49 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I dont see it as getting even. I see it as cause and effect. You are rude to someone so they don't do extras for you. Basic respect.

Obviously if dinner is being made for the whole family, you don't exclude them from taking food.

keym

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 2:56 pm

amother [ Mintgreen ] wrote:

But cooking supper is not "extra" for a mother. A child deserves a nutritious cooked supper and doesn't need to do anything for that- it's what the mother essentially agreed to do when she brought the child into the world.
Extra would baking DD favorite cookies.

dancingqueen

Wed, Jun 16 2021, 3:01 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Oh so the abuse was public? Not just in your home?