Dd 16 yo is very chutzpah to me

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Tangerine

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:21 pm

It sounds like the only thing you can do is go to a professional to get guidance of how to interact with her and that's it.

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:21 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Well, then get used to being abused.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Even if she continues doing the same thing, which I personally don't recommend, OP will get different results one day. This is because her daughter is a teenager. She's changing. It's not really the same thing every time.

IsraeliSoul

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:22 pm

I see you mentioned you received professional guidance. Did you discuss with another professional or just one

amother

Navyblue

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:24 pm

For all those saying don't give her dinner, no cell phone, take away xyz.... When does it end? Do you have to lock her in a closet to "get her to stop" being chutzpadik??

I could easily see a parent doing all these things to punish and the child will start hating the parent even more, doubting they ever loved them, looking for more negative attention, become a self- fulfilling prophesy, and doing a million things worse than saying "You're a weirdo and I hate you!". And then there is not even a relationship to repair. The relationship is completely crumbled and gone.

amother

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:25 pm

IsraeliSoul wrote:

I see you mentioned you received professional guidance. Did you discuss with another professional or just one

One when she was younger and one recently last year.

amother

Stone

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It won’t happen. She won’t cook dinner. She comes home very hungry from school. I need to giver healthy food. I won’t not do it.

It seems like she doesn't know how to take care of herself but she does know how to push you around.

If she is angry at you for something, she needs to work on it. You can't do that work for her.

But you do need to empower her to be more independent. Just studying, getting good grades, being popular and following social formulas outside of the house isn't enough for her long term development.

Does she even have any true and genuine friends? Like real friends that she opens her heart to? Can you open your home to her having friends over? Will she be forced to play nice in front of them? Would that be a gate to a more cordial relationship?

I don't even know where to begin with all this. I do know that when my younger child was being bullied by a teacher, (BH that teacher is gone) a short while later he was verbally abusing his younger brother. I told him "you spoke to your brother the same way mr. X spoke to you. How do you think your brother feels now?". He was very embarrassed by his own behavior and fixed it.

Can you put her in a position to hear herself? And show her where she is learning this from?

amother

Plum

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:28 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

She has friends from the best families in her class. Wholesome great families. Her friends are the best girls also.

So how is your home different? What is she saying when she isn't calling you names?
Sometimes showing an interest and listening goes a long way.

Kelly43

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:28 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

You are being abused.

I would secretly record her abuse.

Then tell her I would play it for her principals, teachers, Rov of the shul,
to ask advice on how to help her.

OR she could go to family therapist WITH you.

I.e. use the recordings to force her into therapy.

Here is an ebay link to a mini voice recorder. I have used these to secretly record abusive people.
Only $13

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32417.....c65Lq

Worst advice I ever heard.. it's a child that her behaviour is bad and we need to find a way with her. Why record her and brake her.?

Kelly43

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:31 pm

Kelly43 wrote:

Worst advice I ever heard.. it's a child that her behaviour is bad and we need to find a way with her. Why record her and brake her.?

I never seen forced therapy that works.

NotInNJMommy

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:33 pm

I agree that meals should be provided or enabled, but you can plate food, put her name on it and walk away. Not in a huff, but you don't have to eat with her or talk to her. I really do encourage you to talk to a therapist who understands teens and these dynamics so you can make healthy boundaries for you and do what you can to teach your daughter about the cause and effect of her behaviors. You do not have to be a shmatteh. Maybe the therapist can help you figure out what are the musts you have to do to responsibly parent and what you can step back from. You might also find some tips from love and logic books on teens.

Ultimately, she is going to have to decide what type of relationship she wants with you in the very near future when she is an adult. And, once she's an adult, you will not be obligated to do the basics to feed, clothe, shelter her and tolerate any of this in the name of parenting. You certainly don't need to socialize with anyone, including a child, who treats you poorly.

Lastly, you will have to build yourself and your confidence up. It's hard to hear a child talk like that, but it's important to be strong in the knowledge that others including them don't define you. It doesn't matter if cvs she ever turns the corner or what she says about you - you don't serve to be dead or this or that, you don't deserve to be talked to that way, but it's most important that you know that inside. And it's very hard especially when the mistreatment is coming from a child.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:35 pm

amother [ Navyblue ] wrote:

No locking in closet.

The point is to teach child that if you abuse someone, you cannot expect any favors.

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:37 pm

I think you need to be kind of aggressively loving with chutzpadik teens. Never show approval of the chutzpadik behavior, but never let her think you love her any less because of the chutzpah. (A chutzpadik teen could be motivated by any number of reasons. She could be taking stress out on you because she feels pressure in her school life. She could be externalizing depression and self-hatred. She could have just picked up a bad habit. Either way, she needs to see a therapist.)

#BestBubby

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:37 pm

Kelly43 wrote:

Worst advice I ever heard.. it's a child that her behaviour is bad and we need to find a way with her. Why record her and brake her.?

DD is already broken.

This is how you deal with abusers.

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:39 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

DD is already broken.

This is how you deal with abusers.

She is not an abuser. Teens are not fully formed and some of them don't yet see their parents as people. They don't see themselves as having any control over their own lives, let alone their parents.

taketwo

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:39 pm

Disclaimer: I have not read through all the responses.

I would not punish a CHILD who is clearly in pain. Nor do I think you need to take 'abuse'.

Know that in many ways it is normal for teenagers to lash out. It is not really about you, you are just the easiest target.

When she is being chutzpadig, I would tell her "I see you are having a bad day/ I hear you are hurt/ I understand xyz, but I am not okay being spoken to in this way." Then I would walk away. When she is a little calmer I would say, are you ready to talk to me about what's going on? I am always ready to listen." And then just listen. Don't argue, don't agree, just listen. "I hear you." goes a long way.

amother

Navyblue

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:39 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

DD is already broken.

This is how you deal with abusers.

If I would have dealt with my abuser this way (secretly recording!) I probably would have ended up murdered. This is such terrible advice.

amother

Ultramarine

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:40 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

No locking in closet.

The point is to teach child that if you abuse someone, you cannot expect any favors.

Supper is not a favor.
Depending on the community, driving to school is not a favor
Depending on the family dynamics, clean laundry is not a favor.
Basic skirts, shirts, underwear, toiletries, school supplies and school books are not favors
They should ABSOLUTELY NOT be bargaining chips to be taken away. NEVER.

Allowance, Camp, extra clothes, pizza, ice cream, shuttling for extracurricular activities and social stuff ARE favors

amother

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:45 pm

amother [ Stone ] wrote:

She has genuine good friends. Girls who are very balanced and most loved by the school in general. They come to our house a lot. Mostly stays in her room and living room. We have a big house so I don’t see them and I just don’t interact with them so much. I don’t think she shares our home problems with her friends because she is ashamed of it. She knows how she sounds like. She also texts me that stuff. She doesn’t care and probably thinks she is right. I did actually see her writing somewhere that she wants to work on כיבוד אב ואם. From that I learned that she just loses her temper and very upset with me and everything. It is very unhealthy for both of us.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:45 pm

amother [ Mulberry ] wrote:

She is not an abuser. Teens are not fully formed and some of them don't yet see their parents as people. They don't see themselves as having any control over their own lives, let alone their parents.

Over 12, you are MECHAYOV in all Mitzvos.

Including giving up life for Kiddush Hashem.

amother

Mulberry

Tue, Jun 15 2021, 1:46 pm

Is she comfortable with her friends, or does she feel pressure to be perfect around them?

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