Vaccine if already recovered?

amother

Honeydew

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 11:33 am

What is the policy is Israel as of now for those who had the virus? I know first it was that you do not need it, then I think I heard only one dose.

Also pay attention that many field experts are changing their mind as of lately from take the vaccine to stop the vaccine at least if you are not very high risk. It was never supposed to allow the spike proteins to leave the injection site and travel freely throughought the rest of the body which they say is of utmost concern. The linked article someone posted above has links to some of the already vaccinated experts who have "crossed to the dark side" including one of the scientists who designed it.

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 2:32 pm

The only way to check for immunity is T cell immunity. Antibody level means very little. It's unknown to what extent the vaccines provide long lasting robust T cell immunity.

A large study recently found that, based on T cell presence in the bone marrows, natural immunity is expected to last a lifetime.

Therefore there is zero benefit to getting the vaccine if you have natural immunity.

More importantly, there is zero evidence that the vaccine provides any additional immunity beyond what natural immunity gives you.

I repeat. There is zero evidence. If you disagree, share the studies. There aren't any.

SixOfWands

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 2:39 pm

amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote:

Please post studies that show that immunity from covid infection is expected to last a lifetime. Or that it doesn't decline at least moderately after 6 to 8 months.

challahchallah

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 2:48 pm

amother [ Cantaloupe ] wrote:

One example of the mRNA vaccines providing additional immunity beyond natural immunity is that it appears to be broader protection to different strains. One specific example is the South African variant which seems to respond to vaccine antibodies* but not convalescent antibodies**.

* https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.01.25.427948
** https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.01.26.21250224

Can you share the studies you reference showing that natural immunity lasts a lifetime and the vaccine provides no additional benefits?

amother

Acacia

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 2:50 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Please post studies that show that immunity from covid infection is expected to last a lifetime. Or that it doesn't decline at least moderately after 6 to 8 months.

How is anyone supposed to prove that immunity from covid will last a lifetime when it wasn't even around for two years? And how can they say the vaccine will prove immunity for a lifetime when it was around for about one year?

challahchallah

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 2:56 pm

amother [ Acacia ] wrote:

I haven’t heard anyone say the vaccine immunity will last a lifetime. Booster shots will most likely be needed, but the timeframe of that is still not known.

amother

Camellia

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 3:02 pm

There are cases of bad reactions of people who had recovered from covid and got the vaccine.
https://www.abc4.com/news/loca.....shot/

This needs to be looked into and your doctor may not have all the info he needs to really give a recommendation.
Also, like someone posted above, antibodies do not appear to be a good indication if someone has immunity. Look into T cell immunity

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:33 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Please post studies that show that immunity from covid infection is expected to last a lifetime. Or that it doesn't decline at least moderately after 6 to 8 months.

I'm happy to post studies but from my experience on this site, no one is really interested in reading the studies. They demand studies, then suddenly the thread quietly dies down after the studies are posted.

But sure. Here's the study that looked at bone marrow to predict lifelong immunity:
https://www.nature.com/article.....647-4

Shmoosh posted the Cleveland Clinic study above with 52,000 participants. Here's an article about the study that concluded,

wrote:

The study findings reveal that individuals with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection do not get additional benefits from vaccination, indicating that COVID-19 vaccines should be prioritized to individuals without prior infection.

https://www.news-medical.net/n......aspx

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:35 pm

amother [ Acacia ] wrote:

The prediction was made based on what is known about the bone marrow's production of immune cells fighting other diseases, and what is now known about the bone marrow's production of immune cells in people who had covid.

They're already discussing the need for vaccine boosters potentially every 6 months, so I'm sure no one is saying that vaccine immunity is long lasting.

TriAspora

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:43 pm

I had COVID-19 in 2020. I had antibodies a few months later. I have recently received 2 doses of vaccine at the advice of my doctor. He has seen some repeat infections and encouraged me to get the vaccine.

fleetwood

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:46 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Please post studies that show that immunity from covid infection is expected to last a lifetime. Or that it doesn't decline at least moderately after 6 to 8 months.

Of course it doesn't last long. I know three people who died after catching it a second time.

amother

Acacia

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 4:51 pm

fleetwood wrote:

Of course it doesn't last long. I know three people who died after catching it a second time.

And people died after receiving the vaccine too.

Bottom line is noone knows how long immunity lasts from either one.

fleetwood

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 5:06 pm

amother [ Acacia ] wrote:

And people died after receiving the vaccine too.

Bottom line is noone knows how long immunity lasts from either one.

I never mentioned the vaccine. I was talking about first hand knowledge of people getting infected twice and dying .

Amarante

Fri, Jul 02 2021, 6:52 pm

From today’s LA Times

I already had COVID-19, so I have some natural immunity. Will that help me against the Delta variant?
Sometimes, the Delta variant appears to care that you’ve got natural immunity. But not always.

A study by Columbia University researchers estimated that, based on India’s recent disastrous wave of Delta-fueled infections, natural immunity is protective “approximately half of the time.”

Nearly all COVID deaths in U.S. are now among unvaccinated

It’s still not known, though, whether it matters which variant infected you before, how long ago you had it, or how robustly your immune system responded to that first infection. Given those uncertainties, if you’re willing to run a 50% chance of catching the Delta variant, there’s one more piece of data to throw into the mix: a study by the U.K.'s Office of National Statistics tracked more than 300,000 Britons who had tested positive for infection with any variant of the virus. It found that, 18 weeks out, almost 14% reported lingering symptoms.

amother

Lightgreen

Sat, Jul 03 2021, 9:59 pm

I am so frustrated with all these mixed signals and information.
I understand it's a new virus and new information is being learned every day.
So far we know:
You can or cant catch covid twice
You can or cant have antibodies from vaccine
Antibodies may or may not protect you from variants
Vaccines seem to stop you from getting covid yet many vaccinated in israel have caught covid now with the delta variant

And on and on

It's so unbelievably frustrating. I am like you OP. I am someone who is very pro vax because the benefits most certainly out weigh the risks. Yet I had covid with antibodies - and no one can provide me with enough information in either direction as to make an informed decision as to whether or not I should vaccinate myself.

All you fighting and arguing - it's enough. You are all right because you all are able to find studies backing up your claims since the information changes back and forth by the day. So enough with the fighting

amother

Scarlet

Sat, Jul 03 2021, 10:07 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I think in general vaccines come with risks, but the rewards outweigh the risks. However, in the case of someone who already had the virus, I'm undecided if it's worth the possible risks of getting the shot, since I probably already have some level of immunity. If you had it already, are you vaxing/vaxxed? My husband feels I shouldn't, but the choice is mine, at the end of the day.

We are pro-vaxxers, just to make that clear.

I'm a pro vaxxer (including gardasil), pro medicine and health care and would not get the covid vaccine if I already had it. It seems from studies that natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity.

amother

Acacia

Sat, Jul 03 2021, 10:24 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

It's not only about which is better. You also have to consider if it's worth it taking a vaccine with unknown long term effects, that may or may not be effective, when you already have some degree of immunity.