 |
|
 |
 |
|
|
Forum
-> The Social Scene
-> Entertainment
|
amother
OP
|
 Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:01 am
Decided to start a spinoff thread because I want to see if we can focus on responding, publicly to this.
I think what hurts most of all is the trampling of Torah that we're seeing here. It's the 9 Days. This show is a massive, massive Chilul Hashem and puts back any efforts in kiruv and Torah education back by a huge amount. I'm seriously not a fire and brimstone kind of person, but I'm devastated by this and we need to push back. Enough.
I happened to read R. Avigdor Miller z'l on Pinchas this Shabbos. Look what he says:
"If you want Hashem to love the Jewish people you have to stand up for the honor of Hashem. [redacted ] It means if you get angry when you see reshaim doing wicked things and you get up and you show your zeal and you stand up for the ideals of Hakodosh Boruch Hu –then Hashem loves the Jewish people. You have to be a fire for the truth, a fire against the reshaim. Protest! Speak up! If you do that, then Hakodosh Boruch Hu loves the Jewish people more. “My children are speaking up for Me!” He says. “I love them for that!”
But if you’re quiet; if you see people trampling on the Torah and you don’t say anything – it doesn’t affect you; you don’t care about it – so Hashem says,“That’s My people?! My people have to take up for Me!” It says you have to love Hashem and hate Hashem’s enemies! ...
Don’t be like the fake liberals who say, “We love everybody.” They love everybody except the decent people. Everybody they love except good people. And therefore Hakodosh Boruch Hu says, “If you want to be beloved by Me, you have to say that you’re not a friend of My enemies.” And you have to mean it. And therefore those who speak up against the enemies of Hashem, they increase His love for Am Yisroel."
From the trailer that dropped last week, it's clear that "My Unorthodox Life" slanders the Orthodox world massively, we're portrayed as ossified, primitive dullards and every woman who doesn't walk around showing her you know whats is oppressed. Perlease. All it takes is a Medium page and spreading the word. Who knows a gifted polemicist who can do this?
| |
|
| Back to top |
 3
 33
|
|
amother
Saddlebrown
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:05 am
|
What about bein adam l'chaveiro? Maybe liberal bashing is not appropriate for the 9 days either.
| |
|
| Back to top |
5
25
|
SuperWify
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:09 am
| amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote: | | What about bein adam l'chaveiro? Maybe liberal bashing is not appropriate for the 9 days either. |
Oh come on. She’s publicly shaming our community. We are allowed to take a stand. We don’t need to stay silent on this and console ourselves by misusing religion and excusing her behavior by saying- “it’s lashon hara” and “love each Jew.”. Blah blah blah…
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
53
|
|
amother
Saddlebrown
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:09 am
| SuperWify wrote: | | Oh come on. She’s publicly shaming our community. We are allowed to take a stand. We don’t need to stay silent on this and console ourselves by misusing religion and excusing her behavior by saying- “it’s lashon hara” and “love each Jew.”. Blah blah blah… |
I wasn't referring to her.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
5
|
|
amother
OP
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:10 am
|
Right. This is bad and we need to stand up to it. There's no price to pay for abusing Orthodox Jews.
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
8
|
SuperWify
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:12 am
| amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote: | | I wasn't referring to her. |
I’m sorry I misunderstood. Can you explain?
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
2
|
|
amother
OP
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:14 am
|
Please understand that "liberal" in R Avigdor Miller's quote is not politics. It's his take on not pushing back against the "live and let live" mentality which soon becomes total apathy. Nothing to do with contemporary political labels.
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
21
|
|
amother
Bronze
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:25 am
Bashing back never cured a situation.
The only thing that can help is putting out many positive documentaries about our lifestyle, so they over shadow the few negative ones.
As long as only the bitter people go public this is what our reality will look like.
Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
20
|
|
amother
OP
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:32 am
|
Not sure I agree. The Black Panthers pushed back and anti black bigotry stopped pretty fast. Last summer's protests changed the conversation too. We Orthodox Jews are just always prepared to lie down and take it. I understand that we need Da'as Torah guidance on this, but putting out our own docs (nice idea) is not going to stop visible Jews getting hurt - which is what shows like this lead to. We're portrayed as so unbelievably horrible that it gives license to street violence. It comes one straight year after Unorthodox and visible Jews are being stabbed in broad daylight.
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
14
|
|
amother
Bronze
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 6:56 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Not sure I agree. The Black Panthers pushed back and anti black bigotry stopped pretty fast. Last summer's protests changed the conversation too. We Orthodox Jews are just always prepared to lie down and take it. I understand that we need Da'as Torah guidance on this, but putting out our own docs (nice idea) is not going to stop visible Jews getting hurt - which is what shows like this lead to. We're portrayed as so unbelievably horrible that it gives license to street violence. It comes one straight year after Unorthodox and visible Jews are being stabbed in broad daylight. |
Every sect has some negative stories.
There are plenty of negative series on Amish, Mormons and other communities.
They are taken with a grain of salt because there is also other information available out there with other people's experience.
Pushing back is not going to help any if you don't have the proof to back your claims.
Last edited by amother on Tue, Dec 21 2021, 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
6
|
|
amother
OP
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 7:33 am
|
Sorry but I don't understand your comment. "Proof to back your claims?" Sure there's proof. Hundreds of thousands of decent, principled Jewish families living Torah lives who are in a class by themselves when it comes to honesty, modesty and generosity.
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
13
|
fmt4
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 7:52 am
Yes, I’m sure an angry, fiery, Avigdor Miller- style polemic is the way to combat this.
Who exactly is that going to convince? It just makes Frum Jews sound like they are scared and threatened by her show, which totally proves her point about fundamentalism. This thread proves her point. You prove her point.
The best thing to do is IGNORE it. There are a billion Netflix shows, this one looks pretty vapid and boring, it’ll get a little bit of press and then disappear.
Relax, people. You’re not Pinchas. 🙄
| |
|
| Back to top |
4
26
|
|
amother
OP
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 7:59 am
|
I brought the R Miller zl to show how Torah sources sanction standing up to lies. No one thinks they're Pinchas. Yes, I agree with you that it's vapid and shallow, but it's going to hundreds of countries and millions of people. You don't want to say it's not okay? Really?
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
9
|
|
amother
SandyBrown
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:04 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Right. This is bad and we need to stand up to it. There's no price to pay for abusing Orthodox Jews. |
Orthodox Jews abuse Orthodox Jews all the time, but we’re more afraid of what the non Jews or not religious Jews will think.
The focus needs to be on correcting actual wrongs not perceptions we are worried about.
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
12
|
|
amother
OP
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:12 am
I think the issue here is that FFB's who may not have extended family in the wider world, or who may live and work in Orthodox "bubbles" just don't get the impact a show like this is going to have.
Just last week I heard about a boy who's been in a serious BT yeshiva in Jerusalem for three years, got engaged and went to visit his folks in the tri-state area. He was met by a cult "deprogrammer", locked in his house for three days and they took away his phone. After three days he called his kallah to tell her that everything he'd been taught in Israel was a lie (Hashem yishmor) and that she should also question everything taught to her very deeply. The engagement is off.
So for anyone who's for ignoring all this and not making waves - I put it to you that shows like this are culpable and we need to stand up to them.
| |
|
| Back to top |
10
8
|
fmt4
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:30 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | I brought the R Miller zl to show how Torah sources sanction standing up to lies. No one thinks they're Pinchas. Yes, I agree with you that it's vapid and shallow, but it's going to hundreds of countries and millions of people. You don't want to say it's not okay? Really? |
I just don’t get the point of Frum jews saying that a show that depicts frum jews badly is “not okay.” Of course they’re not going to like it. That’s the point. Julia will just say that no fundamentalists like to have their fundamentalism exposed to the world.
Btw, this article has an interesting, nuanced perspective. https://www.google.com/amp/s/f.....fgamp
But that’s because it doesn’t come across as angry and defensive. Again, that kind of sentiment will not convince anyone.
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
9
|
GreenEyes26
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:37 am
| fmt4 wrote: | Yes, I’m sure an angry, fiery, Avigdor Miller- style polemic is the way to combat this.
Who exactly is that going to convince? It just makes Frum Jews sound like they are scared and threatened by her show, which totally proves her point about fundamentalism. This thread proves her point. You prove her point.
The best thing to do is IGNORE it. There are a billion Netflix shows, this one looks pretty vapid and boring, it’ll get a little bit of press and then disappear.
Relax, people. You’re not Pinchas. 🙄 |
This 👆🏻
The more y’all yell and scream, the more you prove her point.
If you were confident in your beliefs, this show wouldn’t matter.
| |
|
| Back to top |
2
18
|
GreenEyes26
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:38 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | I think the issue here is that FFB's who may not have extended family in the wider world, or who may live and work in Orthodox "bubbles" just don't get the impact a show like this is going to have.
Just last week I heard about a boy who's been in a serious BT yeshiva in Jerusalem for three years, got engaged and went to visit his folks in the tri-state area. He was met by a cult "deprogrammer", locked in his house for three days and they took away his phone. After three days he called his kallah to tell her that everything he'd been taught in Israel was a lie (Hashem yishmor) and that she should also question everything taught to her very deeply. The engagement is off.
So for anyone who's for ignoring all this and not making waves - I put it to you that shows like this are culpable and we need to stand up to them. |
Yeah, sure. #thathappened
| |
|
| Back to top |
3
16
|
GreenEyes26
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:42 am
| fmt4 wrote: | I just don’t get the point of Frum jews saying that a show that depicts frum jews badly is “not okay.” Of course they’re not going to like it. That’s the point. Julia will just say that no fundamentalists like to have their fundamentalism exposed to the world.
Btw, this article has an interesting, nuanced perspective. https://www.google.com/amp/s/f.....fgamp
But that’s because it doesn’t come across as angry and defensive. Again, that kind of sentiment will not convince anyone. |
This is an excellent article, thanks for sharing!
| |
|
| Back to top |
0
3
|
|
amother
Vanilla
|
Sun, Jul 11 2021, 8:50 am
| amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote: | | What about bein adam l'chaveiro? Maybe liberal bashing is not appropriated for the 9 days either. |
This
I was always taught that the 9 days are about ahavas yisroel
| |
|
| Back to top |
1
8
|
| Related Topics |
Replies |
Last Post |
|
|
Spinoff from Carters thread-Family matches for cheap.
|
5 |
Mon, Apr 15 2024, 10:15 am  |
|
|
Cost of a sefer torah
|
12 |
Mon, Apr 08 2024, 9:43 pm |
|
|
Spinoff cosleeping - no intimacy!
|
88 |
Fri, Apr 05 2024, 2:14 pm |
|
|
Therapy/purim Torah
|
4 |
Fri, Mar 22 2024, 12:17 am |
|
|
Sternberg spinoff-memories!
|
154 |
Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:49 pm |
|
|
Imamother may earn commission when you use our links to make a purchase.
© 2024 Imamother.com - All rights reserved
|  |
 |
|
 |
|
|
