Crying it out | Imamother

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Infants

Crying it out

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amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:05 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

This isn't something we can prove. How can we prove now that your child will have trauma as a teen or adult because of CIO? Many childhood trauma cases come out as an adult. You can't prove anything from a 7 year old. Countless adults are currently in therapy because of childhood trauma that's getting triggered and coming out as an adult. That's how trauma works. It can stay buried inside for years and come out later in life.

BINGO.
You can’t prove it. But I can prove that my kids were happier after they got a proper night’s sleep.

Find me ONE patient who says my trauma is because I was left to CIO for two nights.
I promise you their traumas are much bigger than that. Controlling parents, neglectful parents, bully classmates, who knows. But I promise you will not find a single person with trauma from JUST TWO nights of CIO.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:06 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

Happier children doesn't mean that they're not traumatized. You can't know why an adult is suffering from childhood trauma. You can't know that it's not CIO. People can get traumatized from a 1 time event that took less then a minute. It doesn't matter for how long or how often something happened when it comes to trauma.

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:08 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

They're happier or they're less fussy? Or are the two the same?

It's not JUST TWO nights of CIO. It's two nights that teach you a lesson for life. Like you said, it's teaching a life lesson. You said it's a life lesson in how to self-soothe. I say it is a life lesson on when to bother protesting and whether or not people can be trusted. But we agree that it's a life skill, a lesson that takes two nights to teach and lasts a lifetime.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:11 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Happier children doesn't mean that they're not traumatized. You can't know why an adult is suffering from childhood trauma. You can't know that it's not CIO.

Traumatized children are not happy, confident and secure.
And if you can’t prove to me that CIO alone causes trauma, then you have absolutely no basis to say it causes trauma.

But I can prove to you that co sleeping not safely is a suffocation risk. Yet a few mothers on is thread thought that was preferable to CIO.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:12 pm

amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:

They are happier. They smile more, they eat better, they nap better, they communicate better. They are fussy when it’s time to eat or nap, but not the whole day.
It is JUST TWO nights.

Tell me. What do you do if your one year old needs antibiotics or Tylenol but refuses to take it?

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:13 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jcpp.13223

Quote:

‘Leaving infants to cry it out’ at term was associated with a decrease in crying frequency at 3 months. Furthermore, leaving infants to cry it out a few times at term and often at 3 months was associated with shorter fuss/cry duration at 18 months of age. No adverse impacts of leaving infants to cry it out in the first 6 months on infant–mother attachment and behavioural development at 18 months were found.

Decrease in crying is exactly what we are saying. They cry less often and for shorter duration because they have learned that they are not likely to be answered if they cry more often or for longer.

They were only followed for 18 months and at that age acting out is pretty normal, so it wouldn't raise eyebrows. Also crying at daycare is normal at that age and doesn't raise eyebrows.

These people didn't measure stress level and using how often a baby cries is not a useful measure of the baby's stress. The most stressed-out babies - those in orphanages or other children's homes - cry the least. When they are adopted they often don't cry at first, until they learn that their needs will be answered and then (after a few weeks) they go back to crying. That doesn't mean they're not stressed, it means they learned their cries will go unanswered and that it's better to conserve energy.

CIO does the same but to a lesser degree which is why babies still cry, just less often and for shorter periods.

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:13 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

Prove to me that the baby will be traumatized for life.

My 7 year old is happy well adjusted and I have an open and communicative and loving relationship with him. he sleeps really nicely, does well in school, acts out as normal for a child his age, has friends.

Define

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:14 pm

amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:

How can that be the life lesson if my baby trusts me and protests healthily during the day?

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:14 pm

amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:

Define

Sometimes fights with his brother. Sometimes doesn’t want to do homework. Sometimes isn’t in the mood of brushing his teeth.

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:15 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

And co-sleeping SAEFLY then should certainly be preferable to CIO.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:16 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

And co-sleeping SAEFLY then should certainly be preferable to CIO.

Unless your baby can’t do it. Like mine, who wakes up from every sound in the room and if she smells me she wants to be held and nurse.

amother

Emerald

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:17 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

This is not true. Trauma can be quiet for years and years and come out later.
And I'm still waiting for the name of the top psychiatrist that told you CIO is ok. Or I'm assuming that no top psychiatrist told you that.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:18 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

This is not true. Trauma can be quiet for years and years and come out later.

What do you do if your one year old needs medicine but clamps her mouth shut strongly and refuses to take it?

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:20 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

Very interesting. Makes you really wonder.

amother

Winterberry

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:20 pm

Look we aren’t morons just becomes we don’t agree on sleep training. We don’t lack the knowledge to see if our kids are obedient or just really happy because they are well rested. My kids for one are absolutely not less fussy trust me they let their needs be known. And when my baby is sick she cries at night and guess what I go to her. Unbelievable right?

amother

Emerald

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:21 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

What do you do if your one year old needs medicine but clamps her mouth shut strongly and refuses to take it?

Try to bribe with a treat, distraction, mix it into food or drink, or give it in suppository form.

amother

Cobalt

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:22 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

Unless your baby can’t do it. Like mine, who wakes up from every sound in the room and if she smells me she wants to be held and nurse.

Did you actually try co-sleeping? With its corollary, nursing while lying down?

If you did, good for you. Perhaps CIO was in fact the best decision under your circumstances.

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:23 pm

amother [ Emerald ] wrote:

Try to bribe with a treat, distraction, mix it into food or drink, or give it in suppository form.

A one year old (12-15 months) usually can’t be bribed.

What if your baby refuses to be bribed or distracted and refuses to drink the drink with the medication, and screams if you try to give a suppository? Do you let her just be sick?

amother

Yolk

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:24 pm

amother [ Cobalt ] wrote:

Did you actually try co-sleeping? With its corollary, nursing while lying down?

If you did, good for you. Perhaps CIO was in fact the best decision under your circumstances.

Yes I did.

amother

Firethorn

Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:29 pm

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

Unless your baby can’t do it. Like mine, who wakes up from every sound in the room and if she smells me she wants to be held and nurse.

Why does your baby wake up from every sound in the room? Why does she want to be held and nurse every time you are there?

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

How can that be the life lesson if my baby trusts me and protests healthily during the day?

But didn't you just say that your baby cries less after you CIO? Of course your baby trusts you, you're all she has. If she doesn't trust you she's doomed. If she doesn't win your favor she's doomed. That doesn't mean that there's no trauma.

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

Sometimes fights with his brother. Sometimes doesn’t want to do homework. Sometimes isn’t in the mood of brushing his teeth.

How's that express itself? What do the fights look like, what does refusal to do homework or brush teeth look like? The issues are the same for most kids, but the reactions are not.

Why do you keep refusing to name your top experts, btw?

amother [ Yolk ] wrote:

What do you do if your one year old needs medicine but clamps her mouth shut strongly and refuses to take it?

Okay, I'll bite. I say we need to take this medicine and it will make you feel better. I sometimes offer a bribe. If that doesn't work I put the child on my lap and hold the syringe and gently open the child's mouth, point to the inner cheek, squeeze a bit out and wait for it to be swallowed (in that position it has to be) and then do it over and over until it's all in. Sometimes we have to do it by force and it takes two of us to get the medicine in, but usually we don't have to do that more than once or twice because they learn that the medicine has to go in and will go in regardless. Yes that is traumatic to learn that you don't get to choose to reject the medicine, when we have to force it, but we don't have a choice and we try to soften it with touch, hugs, soft words, lots of holding and comforting afterwards, we acknowledge the stress and their feelings and lack of choice and control. We know it is traumatic but if a baby needs medicine then that trauma is preferable to the consequence of not taking the medicine. Sometimes you have no choice. We know our kids will forgive us for forcing it down once they become parents and face the same issue from the other side. We can't say the same for CIO.

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