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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:35 pm
All my babies wake up from my husband’s coughing and snoring. And they nurse, so they want to be nursed if they see me. That’s just the way it is.

My baby cries less at night after CIO because she sleeps. She babbles or kvetches in the morning when she wakes up. She cries during the day if she is hungry or dirty or whatnot. And she is responded to lovingly.

The fighting and tooth brush protesting is minimal, and handled with love and understanding. I just brought that in to show that no, my kids are not turned into statues who obey every command. They are still normal kids who test boundaries.

The medicine analogy is exactly how I see CIO. After trying every other method, I lovingly kiss my baby and say I love you, it’s time for a good nights sleep.

Experts: I haven’t found any psychiatrists online who are pro or anti. I’m sure I can find ones who are pro just like Blimi Heller found one who is anti. I need to do more research. But every book I read and dr I visited said that it is a safe thing to do.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:37 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
All my babies wake up from my husband’s coughing and snoring. And they nurse, so they want to be nursed if they see me. That’s just the way it is.

My baby cries less at night after CIO because she sleeps. She babbles or kvetches in the morning when she wakes up. She cries during the day if she is hungry or dirty or whatnot. And she is responded to lovingly.

The fighting and tooth brush protesting is minimal, and handled with love and understanding. I just brought that in to show that no, my kids are not turned into statues who obey every command. They are still normal kids who test boundaries.

The medicine analogy is exactly how I see CIO. After trying every other method, I lovingly kiss my baby and say I love you, it’s time for a good nights sleep.

Experts: I haven’t found any psychiatrists online who are pro or anti. I’m sure I can find ones who are pro just like Blimi Heller found one who is anti. I need to do more research. But every book I read and dr I visited said that it is a safe thing to do.


You posted that a top psychiatrist told you that CIO is ok. So I'm asking for the name of that psychiatrist.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:40 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
A one year old (12-15 months) usually can’t be bribed.

What if your baby refuses to be bribed or distracted and refuses to drink the drink with the medication, and screams if you try to give a suppository? Do you let her just be sick?


Of course you can bribe a 1 year old! You can bribe an even younger child. My 1 year old would do anything for an m&m. Ear infections I treat with ear drops. Suppositories don't hurt. I never had a child screaming when putting in a suppository.
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amother




Firethorn
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:43 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
Of course you can bribe a 1 year old! You can bribe an even younger child. My 1 year old would do anything for an m&m. Ear infections I treat with ear drops. Suppositories don't hurt. I never had a child screaming when putting in a suppository.

Maybe it depends on the 1yo's IQ...
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:46 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
Of course you can bribe a 1 year old! You can bribe an even younger child. My 1 year old would do anything for an m&m. Ear infections I treat with ear drops. Suppositories don't hurt. I never had a child screaming when putting in a suppository.


My sick 1 year old cannot be bribed by an M&M or distracted with a video. She hates medicine and screams.
And she hates suppositories and screams (and to me that feels just awful- putting something inside her backside while she is screaming is just awful).

Good for you that you have children like that. Maybe they also don’t cry so much at night. But guess what? You lucked out. So don’t badmouth those of us who are working with the children we have.
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:47 pm
amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:
Maybe it depends on the 1yo's IQ...


Can you elaborate?
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:49 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
My sick 1 year old cannot be bribed by an M&M or distracted with a video. She hates medicine and screams.
And she hates suppositories and screams (and to me that feels just awful- putting something inside her backside while she is screaming is just awful).

Good for you that you have children like that. Maybe they also don’t cry so much at night. But guess what? You lucked out. So don’t badmouth those of us who are working with the children we have.


Where do you see me bad mouthing anyone?
My babies are normal babies and cry at night plenty.
But leaving them to cry isn't an option for me. I try to implement healthy sleep patterns very early on.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:50 pm
amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:
Maybe it depends on the 1yo's IQ...


I don't think so. Most 1 year olds would jump for a treat.
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:51 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
Where do you see me bad mouthing anyone?
My babies are normal babies and cry at night plenty.
But leaving them to cry isn't an option for me. I try to implement healthy sleep patterns very early on.


Was it you that pondered whether CIO is abusive?

I also try to implement healthy sleep patterns from the start. But they didn’t work so I had to go to choice D. You got lucky because your children responded to choices A B or C. That doesn’t mean that choice D is a bad choice.

Do you breastfeed?
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amother




Firethorn
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:52 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
My sick 1 year old cannot be bribed by an M&M or distracted with a video. She hates medicine and screams.
And she hates suppositories and screams (and to me that feels just awful- putting something inside her backside while she is screaming is just awful).

Good for you that you have children like that. Maybe they also don’t cry so much at night. But guess what? You lucked out. So don’t badmouth those of us who are working with the children we have.

No one said our 1yos always agree to take the bribe or don't cry so much at night or during the day. We didn't necessarily luck out, we're working with the kids we have.

We just don't think it's justifiable to purposely leave an infant to cry alone for what seems like forever, coming in at a predetermined time that feels sporadic to the infant.

We're not perfect and sometimes our babies cry and aren't responded to immediately, but we try our best and we don't justify leaving a baby to cry by claiming that it benefits the baby, because it doesn't benefit the baby, it does only harm.

I don't know what your plans A, B, and C were but yes CIO is a bad choice. Sometimes bad choices are the only choices, that doesn't make them less bad.

Oh, btw, yes I breastfeed. Until what age?
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 12:55 pm
amother [ Firethorn ] wrote:
No one said our 1yos always agree to take the bribe or don't cry so much at night or during the day. We didn't necessarily luck out, we're working with the kids we have.

We just don't think it's justifiable to purposely leave an infant to cry alone for what seems like forever, coming in at a predetermined time that feels sporadic to the infant.

We're not perfect and sometimes our babies cry and aren't responded to immediately, but we try our best and we don't justify leaving a baby to cry by claiming that it benefits the baby, because it doesn't benefit the baby, it does only harm.

Oh, btw, yes I breastfeed. Until what age?


I breastfeed until my child self weans. I think it could be that’s part of why they are hard to sleep train using other methods. But they are allergic to many alternatives so I find it hard to wean.
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amother




Winterberry
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:02 pm
You lost me with giving 1 year olds m&m. That’s not something I would ever do. Seems we are just on different pages about everything. Also if my 1 year old hates something no bribe in the world will stop her protesting it.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:03 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
I breastfeed until my child self weans. I think it could be that’s part of why they are hard to sleep train using other methods. But they are allergic to many alternatives so I find it hard to wean.

I'm currently co-sleeping with a nursing 1 yo who is easily my toughest kid and worst sleeper to date. I recently weaned my almost 3-yo.

CIO was, however, my absolute last option. I promised myself I will go through the entire No Cry Sleep Solution before I do that. But I'm lazy so I just tolerate the multiple wakeups. Since I'm going right back to sleep after baby latches on, it's not too much of an issue.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:05 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
Was it you that pondered whether CIO is abusive?

I also try to implement healthy sleep patterns from the start. But they didn’t work so I had to go to choice D. You got lucky because your children responded to choices A B or C. That doesn’t mean that choice D is a bad choice.

Do you breastfeed?


I did not say that CIO is abusive. I did not badmouth anyone.
Because the better choices didn't work for you, it doesn't mean that the last choice isn't a bad choice.
If it's used as a last choice resort, it's probably a bad option.
Yes, all my kids were breastfed.
You can't make a claim that CIO is totally ok and leaves no effects on the baby when you said you used it as a last resort. Using it as a last resort means that it's not the best option.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:11 pm
To add to Emerald...

Quote:
Sometimes a decision that is correct
Won't work for us in the way we'd expect.

We might need to adjust for our situations
And thus fall short of the world's expectations.

Like sending my toddler to playgroup at two
Though I might be a SAHM with little to do.

Or starting with formula, straight after birth
Despite all the lectures on colostrum's true worth.

I knew what I was doing when I had to decide
I feel no guilt and have no need to hide.

I'll do anything for my kids, but some things I do
Are so I'll be up for it tomorrow, too.

Not every choice I make is the best if you will
I can't be expected to die on every hill.

I'm first to admit that kids need to be with mom
But I need those hours for me to stay calm.

Yes, nursing is best and supports baby's growth
But sanity trumps that, and I couldn't have both.

I stand by my decisions, but let's keep it real
Just cuz it's right for me doesn't make it ideal.
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:17 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
I did not say that CIO is abusive. I did not badmouth anyone.
Because the better choices didn't work for you, it doesn't mean that the last choice isn't a bad choice.
If it's used as a last choice resort, it's probably a bad option.
Yes, all my kids were breastfed.
You can't make a claim that CIO is totally ok and leaves no effects on the baby when you said you used it as a last resort. Using it as a last resort means that it's not the best option.


I tried the other ones. They didn’t work. This was my best option. The other option was for me to wake up constantly and be a tired grumpy mom and my baby to be overtired. So yes, it was a good choice for me.

And I can say it leaves no effects- because it left no effect other than a happier well rested baby.
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amother




Emerald
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:20 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
I tried the other ones. They didn’t work. This was my best option. The other option was for me to wake up constantly and be a tired grumpy mom and my baby to be overtired. So yes, it was a good choice for me.

And I can say it leaves no effects- because it left no effect other than a happier well rested baby.


Again, because it worked for you, it doesn't mean it's ideal. Sometimes we need to do things that aren't ideal because we have no other choice. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you know that it's not an ideal method but you don't have a choice. You had to choose between 2 evils.
You can't say that it has no lasting effects. A happier baby isn't proof that there's no trauma.
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amother




Cobalt
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:21 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
I tried the other ones. They didn’t work. This was my best option. The other option was for me to wake up constantly and be a tired grumpy mom and my baby to be overtired. So yes, it was a good choice for me.

And I can say it leaves no effects- because it left no effect other than a happier well rested baby.

I think what people are trying to say is that it was good for you, but it still remains objectively a bad choice.

When I had to take one of my kids to the ER, I got basically a stranger, not Jewish or part of our community, to watch the other ones. No research, nothing. I did it because I had to, and it was definitely the right thing to do. But if someone asks me if they should get babysitters sight unseen, I'll be the first to tell them it's a bad decision.
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:22 pm
amother [ Emerald ] wrote:
Again, because it worked for you, it doesn't mean it's ideal. Sometimes we need to do things that aren't ideal because we have no other choice. There's nothing wrong with admitting that you know that it's not an ideal method but you don't have a choice.
You can't say that it has no lasting effects. A happier baby isn't proof that there's no trauma.


Yup. It was ideal for me and my baby at that time with our circumstances.

And I can say it has no lasting effects. You can’t say that it does without proving it.
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amother




Firethorn
 

Post Thu, Jul 15 2021, 1:30 pm
amother [ Yolk ] wrote:
I breastfeed until my child self weans. I think it could be that’s part of why they are hard to sleep train using other methods. But they are allergic to many alternatives so I find it hard to wean.

I also BF until they self-wean. I don't think it influences how well they sleep or sleep train.
I'm sorry your kids are allergic, that's tough. Kudos to you for the extended BF though.
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