Shelled out my bathroom by mistake

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:28 pm

My bungalow neighbor hired a worker to completely renovate her bathroom. Tiles, toilet, bathtub... complete job. The worker misunderstood and shelled out mine instead. Am I responsible to pay for this???? This is a few thousand dollars! I feel so sorry for her, but I dont have the money for this now... Asking a rov tom, but wondering what the thoughts are?

amother

DarkViolet

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:33 pm

Im so sorry this happened!
This is definitely a question for a rav, but I'd imagine that the neighbor would have to cover all the costs.
I would also ask the rav if the workers should be starting on your bathroom first, before installing a new one for the neighbors.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:36 pm

Definitely a halacha question. Based on things I read in the Business Halacha newsletters it's not so straightforward.

I wonder if it's the neighbor's obligation or the worker's obligation?

amother

Strawberry

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:40 pm

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

Definitely a halacha question. Based on things I read in the Business Halacha newsletters it's not so straightforward.

I wonder if it's the neighbor's obligation or the worker's obligation?

The solution I imagine is that OP's bathroom should be 'restored' with her neighbors older items to the extent they can be moved in.... and otherwise brought back to the 'level' it was.... none of this should be on OP's dime.

If the worker was given poor instructions - his time should be compensated for by the neighbor.

liveandlove.ima

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:43 pm

It may very likely be the workers at fault though if it's a gentile why would he listen to halacha. I really do wonder how this will pan out. Do keep up posted.

amother

Valerian

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:46 pm

As far as I know lehalacha, if you benefit from it you have to pay at least for the amount you benefit. Ask a rav. Even better, go with the neighbour to discuss it with the rav. So sorry.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:48 pm

tichellady wrote:

I don’t see how you could possibly be required to pay for work you didn’t ask for

I also find it hard to understand, but apparently if you benefit from it, you may need to pay for it.

https://businesshalacha.com/en.....ted=1

"Generally, when someone derives benefit from another person’s work that is usually done for pay; then, even if he never agreed to pay for that service, he is required to pay. He cannot absolve himself by saying, “You did it for free, because I never told you to do it” (Shulchan Aruch, C.M. 246:17 and 264:4).

"But this is true only if there had never been a discussion prior to the benefactor providing the service, in which case this falls under the rubric of yored lesoch sdei chaveiro shelo b’reshus, a person who works in another’s field without permission, where Halachah dictates that he is required to pay for the work even if he never asked the person to do it (ibid. 375:1)."

amother

Strawberry

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:50 pm

amother [ Gardenia ] wrote:

at the current moment - OP has no benefit - she has a bathroom that is fully unusable. In other words - she has damages.

amother

Oxfordblue

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:50 pm

amother [ Strawberry ] wrote:

Nice idea but you're probably not familiar with the process. When tiles are removed they are impossible to reuse. A bathroom shelled also means new drywall. New mud and as mentioned new tiles.

amother

Strawberry

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:52 pm

amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:

Nice idea but you're probably not familiar with the process. When tiles are removed they are impossible to reuse. A bathroom shelled also means new drywall. New mud and as mentioned new tiles.

Sink and tub was what I had in mind... the rest clearly needs to be fixed.

amother

Mon, Jun 20 2022, 11:55 pm

amother [ Honey ] wrote:

I know my comment is not at all helpful to the situation, but how did the worker get into your bungalow?

I left my door unlocked cuz a cleaning lady was coming to clean this week

amother

Pink

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:09 am

A very very interesting shaila! This could really keep people engaged in gemara study. Thank you for keeping updates here & I hope you don't get much aggravation out of this going forward.

liveandlove.ima

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:13 am

amother [ Valerian ] wrote:

As far as I know lehalacha, if you benefit from it you have to pay at least for the amount you benefit. Ask a rav. Even better, go with the neighbour to discuss it with the rav. So sorry.

The question really is what "benefit" means halachicaly, like is it more efficient now or just nicer. Perhaps fancy doesn't count torahdig? Just saying.

Rubies

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I left my door unlocked cuz a cleaning lady was coming to clean this week

I'm curious if you leaving it unlocked may be a factor they consider in all this.

Keep us posted!

amother

Snowdrop

Tue, Jun 21 2022, 12:17 am

Rubies wrote:

I'm curious if you leaving it unlocked may be a factor they consider in all this.

Keep us posted!

Why would her leaving it unlocked make her responsible for the worker who messed up the address/entrance?